19-01-2002 00:13									#31
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The Civilopedia text for Scientific civilizations does not indicate that they get Writing as a starting tech.

	19-01-2002 01:01									#32
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Ah, finally found this thread, I kept searching through the General forum.

Based on some of the earlier discussions I made some changes in my own version; here are a few of them, see what you think.

A lot of those "move item X to tech Y so that it has something" came from one of my posts in the first place, so of course I put them in. Most of these are relatively minor, except:

Move Newton's University to Physics, and remove Theory of Gravity. Use its free slot to create a new Medeival tech, "Nautical Engineering". Prerequisite Engineering, allows Caravels (instead of Astronomy), and is a prerequisite for Astronomy.

In the Industrial era, rearrange a bit. Rename "Amphibious Warfare" into "Modern Navy" or something (haven't decided yet), and have it require Steam Power (MUCH earlier in the tree). It allows Ironclads (instead of Steam Power) and Marines (reduced to a 6/4/1 amphibious unit that is an upgrade from Swordsmen), is required for era advancement, and is a prerequisite for Combustion (where Transports come in).
You see, part of the problem IMHO is that there was almost no gap between the "primitive" sailing ships and the Ironclad.

Paratroopers gain the amphibious ability as well and become "Assault Troops", with the 8/6/1 stats and an increased cost, which makes them a viable alternative to tanks. Marines upgrade to them.
(In most games I saw, people only made Marines and Paratroops if there was a situation, like a 1-square island, where these units were absolutely needed. This helps.)

Once I get the hang of the Copy Tool, I'm going to start adding new units. Highlights include:

Partisans; units with no resource requirement, very cheap to build, but inferior in pretty much every way. These represent when the country needs everyone to fight for their land on short notice, using whatever they can scrounge up. The Ancient Era one is the Warrior (no longer upgrades to Swordsman), the Medeival is the Peasant (2/2/1), the Industrial is the Farmer (3/4/1), and the Modern is the Redneck (5/7/2).

A medeival-era Swordsman upgrade (5/3/1 Iron), the Man-at-Arms. Yes, they did exist in gunpowder armies, and this'll bridge the gap from Swordsmen to Marines. The Samurai unique unit would become a substitute for this unit, instead of the Knight, and would be 5/4/1? 6/4/1? 5/4/1 with no Iron? It doesn't make sense that a unit not requiring horses can move 2.

A continuation of the Archer line (which I've buffed slightly; Archer 3/1/1, Longbowman 6/1/1); the Sharpshooter (9/2/1) at the beginning of the Industrial era, the Sniper (15/4/1) in the Modern. These'd be much cheaper than normal defensive infantry, don't require many resources, and don't have a ZoC. They're used for attacking an entrenched defender without risking Cavalry/Tanks, and are cheap enough to be worth it.

Skirmishers: Somewhat expensive Impi-style defenders, whose increased movement would keep Cavalry from retreating. The Chariot would be at the start of the line (no longer upgrading to the Horseman), and Mechanized Infantry would be the end of both this and the Infantry lines of development, combining the traits of both. Pretty much just need three in the middle, coming at the end of the Ancient, middle of the Medieval and towards the beginning of the Industrial. I was thinking that the Impi and War Chariots could go into this line as uniques, and possibly the War Elephant.

The Balloon, an early 0/0 air unit that can only do the Recon command. Try it and you'll see how much this one helps.

Thoughts?

	19-01-2002 01:14									#33
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Playing as the Babylonians. Crash upon reasearching Warrior Code, which was the first technology I researched.

Save file attached.

edit - added a second save file dated 2710. In this, you can trade with the Zulu scout for Warrior Code, but researching it yourself crashes the game.

Attachment: crash.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

Last edited by ChrisShaffer on 19-01-2002 at 01:31

	19-01-2002 01:39									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Spatzimaus Thoughts?

I think you'll find more discussion of the mod on Vel's forum at http://renaissanceforums.community....l?NodeID=320630 . This thread is primarily to report problems with the alpha version of the mod.

	19-01-2002 05:08									#35
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How actually do you create new units? I haven't been able to find any kind of tool in the editor for it.

	19-01-2002 06:32									#36
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Chris,

I can't seem to download that file. However, I suspect it may be related to the Warrior Code civilopedia crash, and I have a fix for that in the works.

GeneralTacticus,

Please don't clutter up this thread with unrelated junk. Use your eyes and look at the threads stuck to the top of the forum.

-Sev

	19-01-2002 07:20									#37
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quote: At 8:1 early Republics and Monarchys are much less desireable than Despotism. I think this should be reset to 4:1. We can adjust the costs of late game units/improvements if necessary to balance out the Industrial/Modern eras.

thoth,
i am almost positive what you are talking about is shield cost per gold under the wealth bar, what that means is it takes 8 shields to give you one gold piece and by discovering economics this takes you down to 4

under hurry production is a box called shield value in gold, which is set at 4 throughout the game and it is this box which determines rush buying

	19-01-2002 08:02									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: thoth, i am almost positive what you are talking about is shield cost per gold under the wealth bar, what that means is it takes 8 shields to give you one gold piece and by discovering economics this takes you down to 4 under hurry production is a box called shield value in gold, which is set at 4 throughout the game and it is this box which determines rush buying

Vel has caused the cost per shield bought to be set at 8, the wealth settings are unchanged. IIRC the intent is to limit the ability of Democracies to rush buy huge armies in the Modern era. Unfortunately, it tips the balance way out in the Medieveal era. I've changed it back to 4 in my copy of the Mod. I don't fancy the notion of either playing Despotism until quite late or switching to a Monarchy/Republic when rush buying is so constrained.

	19-01-2002 13:38									#39
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oh ok i gotcha,

right under your post chris said how about 4:1 the entire game, that taken with your post made me think that you had the mistaken impression you could change the cost of rush buying over the course of the game, and i was trying to help ward off any wild goose chases hehe so disregard me

ps

i hope a new patch with tons of wonderful upgrades to the editor comes out soon

	20-01-2002 01:42									#40
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 oh ok i gotcha, right under your post chris said how about 4:1 the entire game, that taken with your post made me think that you had the mistaken impression you could change the cost of rush buying over the course of the game, and i was trying to help ward off any wild goose chases hehe so disregard me

I think Vel has already chased that goose.

quote: ps i hope a new patch with tons of wonderful upgrades to the editor comes out soon

You, me and a couple of thousand others.

	20-01-2002 23:51									#41
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Hey Vel,

I came across a post you made, I haven't a clue where, regarding giving my Archers Bombard ability to give them a free shot. How does that work exactly, and are there any other flags I'll have to consider? Can I still have Attack/Defense numbers, or does it become just another version of the Catapult? I've given them ZoC right now, but I'm hoping on something more effective.

BTW, I love that idea of yours to create a colourless land unit. It's great being able to take out those cities the AI plops down behind my frontier without having to have an all out war. Thanks for the tip. Also, piracy is still a big problem in the China Sea, so there's no reason why there shouldn't be an upgrade for the Privateer.

	21-01-2002 07:37									#42
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That was actually a DavidWeldon/Sev idea, IIRC, and it works like a charm! Give them a bombard attack, range 0, and set the power to what you think is appropriate, as I understand it, and you're all set!

The colorless unit thing....yeah, I'm loving it in the mod, but, you really gotta babysit your workers, cos the AI knows to use them!

-=Vel=-

	21-01-2002 08:51									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Velociryx That was actually a DavidWeldon/Sev idea, IIRC, and it works like a charm! Give them a bombard attack, range 0, and set the power to what you think is appropriate, as I understand it, and you're all set! The colorless unit thing....yeah, I'm loving it in the mod, but, you really gotta babysit your workers, cos the AI knows to use them! -=Vel=-

Yeah, I decided to just experiment and figured it out. I like it, makes my Archers much more useful. I'm thinking of adding it to a couple more of my ranged units as well. It seems to me that Tanks should have this as well, they certainly would have the range to justify a free shot against an attacker.

I haven't seen the AI build one of the colourless units yet, but I'll be sure to ttake your advice.

	23-01-2002 05:13									#44
	Religious Improvements and Units Increase Your PM Length

O.K Guys,

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but I've been giving more thought to my Civ3 Mod suggestions, and have come up with the following:

1) Move temple from ceremonial burial to mysticism.
2) Ceremonial burial now allows the construction of a Tomb (Barrow, Burial mound et al). This improvement gives 1 happiness and 1 culture, 0 maintainance and the same cost as a temple. Is obsolete with Theology (or Education)
3) New Great Wonder: Stonehenge. Reduces corruption in the city it is built but not sure of any possible secondary effects! I'm thinking it should either grant continental mood effects, or act as a granary in every city (as it was, apparently, used to better measure the changing of the seasons). Requires stone and Gnosticism to build. Becomes obsolete with Monotheism
4) New "Resource": Gnosticism. Is now a required resource for construction of all religious improvements. Has a high rate of appearence. and low rate of disappearance. Is available with Ceremonial Burial and appears in Forests, Jungle Mountain and Desert Terrain. Grants +1 Production and +1 Commerce to the tile.
5) Radically Altered Pyramids: Will now double the effects of all tombs (not a giant granary after all!), as well as granting 2 happiness in the city in which it is built. Also reduces corruption in the city it is built.
6) New Improvement: Sacrificial Altar. Requires Gnosticism and Indigenous population to build. Reduces corruption, creates 1 happiness, neagtive culture. Becomes obsolete with nationalism. Can only be built by Despotism, Monarchy and Theocracy.
7) Altered Great Wonder: Chitchen Itza. Now doubles the effects of sacrificial altars. Cultural Imrovement.
8) New Great Wonder: Dialectics of Confucious: Acts as a Courthouse in every city.
9) New Units: Holy Man. Available with Mysticism. Treats all terrain as roads, no nationality, stats 1/1/4. Really only useful for "Converting" (Capturing) enemy settlers and workers!! Could be used to "Occupy" empty enemy cities. Upgrades to Missionary. Requires Gnosticism.
Missionary: Similar to Holy Man. Available with Theology and has stats 2/2/4.

Anyway, Hope these are of use to you.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

7)

	23-01-2002 05:25									#45
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Aussie,

You can't make improvements obsolete upon discovery of a tech. Period.

Welcome to the Civ3 editor constraints!

-Sev

	23-01-2002 07:18									#46
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ah, I wasn't aware of that!! Well there goes a fairly large number of my suggested improvements! I just hope that, when they release the updated editor, and obsolesence feature for improvements is included! (Actually, I thought you might be able to build the improvement as a Great Wonder, then downgrade it before you save it! Obviously not?!)

The_Aussie_Lurker

	23-01-2002 10:09									#47
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Those Great Wonder-Small Wonder-Improvement buttons are entirely meaningless (and in any case, switching grays out the other sections - this is confirmed by the fact that you can't make Great Wonders do small wonder stuff). Hell the game sometimes treats Magellan's Voyage as a Small Wonder when it's marked Great Wonder, just because it used to be and there's still some remnant hardcode tying small wonder characteristics to Magellan's.

I've been banging my head against the Civ3 editor wall for...quite some time now. All we can do now is hope. And that's...IF they release an updated editor, not when...pardon my cynicism.

-Sev

	23-01-2002 11:28									#48
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Actually Sev, though I'm normally a bit of a cynic myself, I have to say that it is a question of WHEN, not IF, they release the editor. I mean everytime Jeff or Dan post to the forums regarding the Editor, they keep saying how it's coming along and will be chock full of extra features! (Check the Dec. 21 chat for details on this). For them to do that and then NOT deliver would mean that they'd be better off joining the Witness Protection Programme, 'cause all the mod makers and scenario writers would hunt them down and KILL THEM!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	24-01-2002 07:43									#49
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I downloaded the mod, and it looks great, but I'm having some problems with it. Once I get some way into a game, it starts trying to crash every turn and every time I try to consult one of my advisors. And when I try to download the mod again, my computer wants to save it as a document, not a WinZip file.

	24-01-2002 22:07									#50
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Sev,

I keep getting a crash in 1725. I can't seem to track down what exactly is causing it. I am thinking it may be the discovery of Theology?????? Can't be sure, because I can't switch techs since I don't have any others available to research. Here is the stack dump it gives me:

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 0167:0055000f.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=0167 EIP=0055000f EFLGS=00010246
EBX=00aba484 SS=016f ESP=00aba330 EBP=0ce7fec0
ECX=ffffffff DS=016f ESI=00000018 FS=3f3f
EDX=0a744cdc ES=016f EDI=5c747241 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f2 ae f7 d1 2b f9 8d 54 24 2c 8b f7 8b fa 8b d1
Stack dump:
005dc980 00000018 00651340 0132f8b8 00000001 005ab410 00000000 ffffffff 00000000 17c70258 0ce7fec0 00000001 04010401 00000000 80658384 17c70d3f

	24-01-2002 22:12									#51
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Oops...

Here is savegame

Attachment: crash.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	25-01-2002 01:28									#52
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For some reason I can't download files from here anymore, IE tells me the server can't retrieve the requested file.

Anyway, try setting science to 0% and sending your research to a screeching halt. If it doesn't crash, then it's definitely Theology. If it does, then it's something else.

I'm looking for more crash sources, though. I'll post a follow up if I find one.

-Sev

	25-01-2002 02:22									#53
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Stopping research kept the game from crashing. Continued on a couple of turns without problems. I am going to try to play a few turns then turn research back up to see if it will still crash on me..

Bill

	25-01-2002 02:47									#54
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Well, no matter what I do, when I discover Theology in that game it crashes. I am going to wait until someone else discovers it and buy it from them I guess. then see what happens...

On a side note, I started another game this morning and have played it up to the discovery of Theology...and it crashes too upon the discovery of it.

If I just stop research the game continues on, however it always crashes again, I am hypothesizing it is when another civ is discovering it...

Bill

Last edited by Bill9999 on 25-01-2002 at 03:23

	28-01-2002 18:31									#55
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So, any updates? I would be interested to know how good the mod really is... Does it improve the overall Civ3 experience? What about bugs? I know Vel is busy with his "Candle 'Bre" project (which seems great, by the way!), and I have not seen any other info about the mod-with-no-name...

	30-01-2002 01:38									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have looked at everything, I can't figure out what is causing the game to crash out (besides the fact I KNOW it has to do with Theology.) I have tried it with several different civs, different difficulty levels, nothing changes the fact that it crahes out upon the discovery of Theology. I have tried 1a and 1b, same thing.

For that matter, All I have to do is look at Theology in Civiopedia (exaclty like Warrior Code) and it crashes.

If we can't figure anything out, I am just going to uninstall everything and re-install it late tonight to see if it still happens.

	30-01-2002 06:23									#57
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Untested prediction: While using the mod if you view the civilopedia entry for Writing, Warrior Code, Theory of Gravity, or Theology, the game will crash.

From looking at the .bic I think you "fixed" Writing, so that probably won't cause the crash. But the other 3 will.


Take a look at Civilization III\Art\tech chooser\Icons directory. For every tech you add you must decrease the amount of utilized icons by 1, with the highest numbered icon having to be "removed" first.

So if you add 1 technology, you must change Writing's icon to something else.

Since you've added 4 techs, you must ensure that the following icons go unused: Writing, Warrior Code, Theory of Gravity, and Theology. If you add another tech you'd have to ensure the The Wheel's icon goes unused.



Another tip to make mod installation easier, create a folder for yourself to "work in". Inside that put all the files the mod adds to the civilization game's main directory. Then, for instance, create an Art folder and put the resources.pcx file in it. Then inside that you'd create a "units" folder, and put units_32.pcx in that, etc.

When you're done go back into the main folder where you've added all this stuff. Select all the files (not the main folder itself, but just everything inside it) - and assuming you have winzip in your write-click menu - tell winzip to add them to an archive. When you do it Winzip will show a "path" for each file (assuming you have a relatively recent version of Winzip).

When you have your zip program unzip it into your main civilization directory all the files will correctly place themselves in their proper places.

Makes installation easier than an install program, if you ask me.



Just a few things I've learned while creating the LWC Mod

Hope it clears up some of your troubles.

	30-01-2002 09:17									#58
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Thank you, thank you, thank you Plutarck

Fixed it up and it now works without crash.

Knew it had to be something in there somewhere, I just wasn't familiar enough with the mechanics to figure it out.

Warrior Code no longer crashes either!

Many thanks, from myself, and I am sure from Sev and Vel as well.

Bill

	31-01-2002 02:17									#59
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Thanks Plutarck!

Fixed for the next version.

-Sev

	31-01-2002 03:38									#60
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Hey Alex and all! Not to worry! It's true that I've been having to devote a goodish amount of time to getting the Candle'Bre project up and running, but in my free time, I've been playin' the mod and lurking in the portal forum to see who's sayin' what about it, and contemplating stuff for the next revision....

We've got an awful lot of talented people who poured a lot of time into making it a reality, and I definitely wanna see it continue to grow!

-=Vel=-