17-01-2002 10:02									#1
	What level is the fairest? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hi all, haven't played or visited in a long time.

I might be wrong but it appears that at any difficulty after Regent, the computer is heavily stacked. Especially in the science game.

For instance, it's about year 3700 BC. (2 or 3 turns in ). I bump into the Zulu and have a dig at what they got in terms of science. Since it's so early in the game, they should only have the 2 techs they started with to trade with. but they've the got the initial 2 plus 3 more! Fine, pehaps they swapped techs with some else on the first or second turn. I restart.

I bump into a neighbour no more than 3 turns in. again, he's heavily loaded with excess techs to trade whereas all i have is my initial 2. i quit to check out the map. we're on an island! there's no 3rd party.

if the computer is stacked to begin the game, how can they possibly acquire so much so early. 3 turns in, they've already got 2 cities set up at least 4 steps from each other and a 3rd settler on the way.

Can somebody please recommend a good balancer mod. I don't want to change anything else. I just want the game to be fair.

btw, i've since fdisked my drive for viral reasons. can somebody recommend the latest and best graphics updates for the game?

Thanks!!
Chocoballicious

	17-01-2002 10:04									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

regent

	17-01-2002 13:02									#3
	Support Apolyton

What level is fair depends on how much you perfectionise your moves and what you consider fair.

If you consider fair, you having a 50% chance to win, and you play carefully, you better play deity.
Some people however don't like to play games where they risk losing....

Those techs are from 2 things: trade and huts. If one gets more is not that bad, just find someone to trade your initial techs with as well and your even. But you must find at least one to trade soon. If they have found eachother and traded everything before you found one or 2, you will be behind and it will hard to catch up and ever have anything to offer for them.

Also is it a good idea to invent that what you know the AI does not go for.
Try to tech vertically, meaning you go to high techs asap instead of getting many low techs first (so its horizontally on the tech map) this way you will more likely have stuff to trade with the AI, even if you are behing in tech. Also will the often give you up to 3 lower techs for the tech you have.

	17-01-2002 21:59									#4
	Tired of ads?

Regent

	17-01-2002 23:54									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can't seem to find clear statements in the instruction's manual indicating the level of difficulty that is "equal" for player and AI.

I no longer have the Strategy Guide (ended up being kindling for my fireplace), but I vaguely recall a table in that guide that seemed to indicate the level of no AI penalties or bonuses was at Monarch.

	18-01-2002 00:37									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Regent is the even level. No bonuses nor handicaps for the AI - for the most part. The bit where they always know where your troops are and where barbarians are (and probably huts) is on all levels.

Given the examples you give, I think Regent is the best level for you. Monarch is where I'm at for now, where the AI does get bonuses to research and production, along with some free units. It's not outrageous like Diety, though.

-Arrian

	25-01-2002 18:52									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I also like Monarch a lot.
It is fun without being to frustating (i.e. that you do not have to do everything perfectly etc., although I have to say I did not really try Emperor/Deity).

I find Regent too easy.

Didn't anybody post a poll about preferred level of play yet?
(I was searching for that but couldn't find it. Did bump into this thread though).

	25-01-2002 19:49									#8
	Fun is what counts! Got spare money?

Regent is the level where the AI doesn't get major advantages in production. I usually play Monarch for a little bit of a challenge. Higher levels always feel like you are playing for exploits, such as city packing.

Pick a level that's fun for you!

	25-01-2002 20:06									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Indeed, one can win on monarch without rush-building (except in rare emergency cases), and without massive tech selling (although selling communism to all AI's to see them engage in massive unproductive world wars while you build UN/SpaceShip is sometimes kinda fun)

	25-01-2002 20:32									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Regent is the fair level.

	26-01-2002 03:34									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And incase you missed the other 100 posts, Regent is the fair level.

	27-01-2002 00:15									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Regent you are all saying? That is strange, I watch the AI play at anything less than Monarch and they seem to be purposefully sabotaging production in their cities. (not mining hills, etc) I find monarch easy, but only because the AI is so inept anyway. However, city management does not seem to improve any between Monarch and Deity, etc. Things just get cheaper for the AI.

	28-01-2002 18:01									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by LoneSnark Regent you are all saying? That is strange, I watch the AI play at anything less than Monarch and they seem to be purposefully sabotaging production in their cities. (not mining hills, etc) I find monarch easy, but only because the AI is so inept anyway. However, city management does not seem to improve any between Monarch and Deity, etc. Things just get cheaper for the AI.

Correct. The AI does not get smarter at higher levels, it just gets a few handicaps.

	28-01-2002 20:16									#14
	Tired of ads?

At regent level the AI builds at 100% of your rate: Monarch 25% faster; Deity 66% faster. Conversely at Chieftain you build twice as fast as the AI.

At higher levels the AI will outbuild you, produce more tax revenue and get a big tech lead. I haven't played at this level as I'm not a masochist!

I also beleive the AI civs get meaner at higher levels as well. Some threads suggest they might actually co-operate to try and beat you and may do things such as trade when it's not their turn - I haven't seen this at lower levels.

	28-01-2002 20:48									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I prefer Monarch. Regent gets a tad too easy after a while.

Some on this thread implied that the AI gang up on you on Monarch - I haven't seen this yet.

Actually, on of my strategies is having one or more Protection Pacts, starting a war with my foe of the day, then (after a while) making peace with the foe - and have my former ally fight on.

Serveral times this has started a domino effect where almost everyone but me are at war - leaving me to advance my tech and perfect my citites.

Nothing more satisfying then having modern armor and mech. infantry - while all the rest are stuck with riflemen and cavalery.

SO. Long answer. Could have just said "Monarch".

-Peri

	29-01-2002 00:24									#16
	AI Bonuses Enter the AD-FREE zone

This must be post 101 on the topic, but the 'fairest' level is Regent (it may not be the most fun or appropriate to people's playing styles and abilities, but at least neither side is handicapped).

If you want to see what the various AI/player bonuses are on the other levels, open the editor and take a look at the Rules menu. It's in there, and if you don't like the AI getting free units or whatnot, then go ahead and change it...

- Ash

	29-01-2002 02:32									#17
	Difficulty level Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi Civers,

I find that Emperor level is challenging and I usually win mostly
with space race. Diety level is really tough to keep up with the
AI and once you get behind the aggressive Civs attack together.

The biggest cheat the AI has is not production or science. It is
the violation of the basic 'turn based game' setup. If you are the
the first to contact another group of civs you should have alot
of trading/diplomacy advantage. As soon as you trade contact
with one of these new civs with any of you old neighbors, they
all have contact and trades with these new civs. THIS OCCURS
IN YOUR CURRENT TURN. This cheat ruins the diplomacy of the
game for me. Unless this is fixed in the next release, I will be
returning to Civ II.


Cave Forever,

Dennis

	06-02-2002 04:31									#18
	my final view Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have played some games now, most on deity and 2 on the 4th of the 6 difficulty levels.

I only played on normal size maps with 8 players. and conquest as only possible victory.

on deity, you will have to play PERFECT to win.
You cannot make any mistakes, you will have to do the micro very carefully, automate shouldnt even cross your mind, you must check all your cities for happiness and production and stuff every turn or almost every turn.
Meanwhile you also have to watch the big picture very carefully don't go in war with the wrong guys, swich governments at the right moment, have a target and focus your whole game play on the targets you have. (targets like, "tech to x, the go completely on production, proceed to kill player z, then get piece again, expand......")
This is only if you are perfectionist. I personally consider myself a good strategy player and i HAVE to beat every game on the hardest settings available.

Now that i have beaten it though, the 4th diff was a lot more fun to play actually.
At this difficulty, when you feel like WAR, you can simply start a war without worrying about your reputation or falling back on economy to much or whatever.
It gives you the freedom to do things that you know you shouldn't actually do. It also permits mistakes like forgetting to swich governments for a while.
If you don't do downright dumb things, this is nice for a game where you will have a slight advantage over your opponents, but not too much, while playing freely.

This makes me conclude that playing a lower difficulty level will be very easy, you will be able to make major mistakes and still win with ease. If you dont make major mistakes, you will soon be fighting archers with tanks on these levels.

I think the 4th is the best to play for average players,
the 3th for those that like it easy and automate their stuff.
The fifth for players that like it hard,
the 6th only for those that want perfection of themselves, not for fun play.

sorry never bothered to watch the names that go with the levels besides deity.

	06-02-2002 18:54									#19
	Remove this text

I don't think it's a question of the "right" or "fair" level - although as everyone has said, Regent seems to be the most "equal". I imagine it's more a question of fun. Which is the level where you have the most fun?

I can beat CivII on Deity level while I'm half asleep making mistakes left and right. In fact, I haven't played CivII on anything less than Deity level since 1997. It's all a matter of tried and tested strategies.

Having said that, I haven't even tried CivIII on Deity yet because I don't think it'll be fun (just yet). My current game is at Chieftan and I'm loving it. My suggestion is to try from the easiest to the hardest all of the possibilities and see which one brings you the most pleasure and go from there.

	06-02-2002 19:05									#20
	AI Ganging Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Some persons have said that the AI has a tendency of ganging up on them, ie like world war II when everyone was at war with Germany. What I've observed in my games are that AI civs like to kick 'em when they're down ;-)

That is, if I declare war on one civ and get an alliance with two others, it's very likely that most of the other civs will follow suit and join the war. That's because a civ that is at war with two others will be quite exhausted, and then everyone wants a piece of the pie (or land, as it were).

I discovered it when my enemy joined an alliance with other civs against me, so I reloaded and beat the enemy to an alliance.

	07-02-2002 15:40									#21
	Remove this text

They gang up on you if you have a lower number of units i think.

They dont look at the quality, just the number. When i had an infantry in every city, and only like 8 cavalry running aorund to kill random stuff that moves where i dont want it, they all declared war at me. A few turns later when i had produced cavalry at every city and drew a defender at every city, they would have peace again.
I had to get these units, not for defence but just to get them sign for peace as almost 60% of unhappiness was now caused by war weariness, and i was about 15 turns away from tank tech with which i planned to conquer the world.

	07-02-2002 15:41									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And what really sucks is those mutual protection pacts. can't get peace with the AI anymore untill that ends as they will declare war because of the pact immeadiately again.

	07-02-2002 17:18									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah but that adds to the game, I think. It used to be that one could go capture a city and the AI would immediately press for peace as soon as possible. Even if the AI had a HUGE military advantage over your minor civ. You could be on the verge of extinction, capture a size 2 city and then the AI would be begging for peace.

Now I think you really have to pay for declaring war on a civ. I've been trying to get a peace settlement with Japan for something like 20 turns. No dice.

But this doesn't annoy me, it makes me think that they did something right for once.

	07-02-2002 21:59									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

made empty cuz of double post.

	07-02-2002 22:01									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

well the problem is:

i only declared war ONCE, very early in the game (swordsmen)
I almost completely decimated that guy, he never came back in the game and didn't get above 4 small villanges anymore.

The other civs declared war on me.
Then they sign a mutual protection pact, which prevents me from getting peace with them even if i am willing to pay them.

I think there should at least be an option in the game to negotiate with both allies at once, so that if you wan't, so that you can get peace all together.

Or that the mutual protection pact only works when a civ is actually attacked instead of attacking.
for example europe and the US have a mutual protection pact, if we, europe would tomorrow attack canada just because we don't like them, would it be fair to demand the US to help us because of the pact?