17-01-2002 13:17									#1
	Odd. Kanton defects? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm used to cities going back to the enemy during wartime. I'm used to small cities on the border being sucked into nearby empires. But this I don't understand:
Kanton was a large city (17) with all the improvements a city could have around the armor-phase of the game. It was located near the chinese border but quite a ways inland, so to speak. My civ was the largest (70% of the world at least). Highest culture etc. etc. Kanton had a few chinese citizens but most were french (me).
The world had just emerged from a 300 year world war where my democracy had tumbled twice because of war-weariness (peace wasn't possible as the Ai refused to see my envoy ), but now we were all at peace. The English and Chinese were a shell of their former selves. Only the Aztecs escaped. I was sharing tech and money making nice with everybody. Me democracy.

Then suddenly Kanton goes over to the chinese. I don't get it.

Admittedly Kanton was a long way away from my Capital (corr./waste isn't a problem in my adapted civ3mod.bic and it was a huge map), but this defection was ridiculous.

Any thoughts on why it happened?

Robert

	17-01-2002 13:27									#2
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There is a topped thread in the Strategy forum that explains the factors used.

Did the city have more culture from the Chinese then from you?

	18-01-2002 07:17									#3
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Were you a republic or communist? Did the rival have espionage?

The AI will use propaganda, I'm sure of it. I'm also sure that the AI knows when to use it.

	18-01-2002 12:21									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I was a democracy so propaganda shouldn't have been possible, besides Kanton should have been too expensive for the Chinese to afford. First, because it was so big and well developed and second because the chinese were broke.
If teh AI follows the rules it must have been a border city near another empire defection, but given the situation that was ridiculous.

Robert

	18-01-2002 12:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos There is a topped thread in the Strategy forum that explains the factors used. Did the city have more culture from the Chinese then from you?

Just discovered the existence of the strategy forum.
I quess it was the memory thing that caused the flip. Kanton had been chinese for 5900 years or so (depending on when it was founded).

Robert

	18-01-2002 18:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I guess Kanton had a 0.05% chance to fall back to Chinese, you've just been unlucky. That is the same problem in fights: there seem to be no "limit" to unit's possibility: a spearman should never beat an armor, but he has a 3 or 4% chance. And whene it occurs, we all bite our keyboards

A good improvement of civ should be these limits: with your culture level and your domination, Kanton shouldn't revert. Just as a spearman shouldn't be able to beat a tank. Just as my warriors shouldn't be able to resist alone to a barbarian rush of 12 horsemen with one hp for the 8 last fights

Those problems occur very rarely, but the players never forget them