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player1
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Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
As I figuered out that the modded CTP2 is the Real Civ4  (See somewere in the CTP1 forum), we don't need a new Civ4 forum, because we already have it.
So we don't need a forum for Sid Meyer's next Civ clone now.
-Martin |
Martin, with all resperct to your CTP2 enthusiasm, you are wrong.
If you are right, then all those people like yin, vengar (partialy true), dissident, liberatian, etc... , would come to CTP2 forums.
As it is now, they all still hang on Civ3 - General forum.
Anyway that late game tedium in Civ3 never actully exised in CTP2, since it had much better combat, PW and managment system (although CTP1 national manager was better).
Still, with all MODs together, AI is still poor.
Only thing wich made late game tedium in CTP2 for me was memory leak in late game wich made CIV3 much quicker game then CTP2 (at leat for me).
And it was fun moding CTP2.
I never actully played it a lot.
Finished science victory only once (with my own MOD).
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ColdWizard
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quote:
Originally posted by player1
It would be nice to clear things up in Civ3 genaral |
requests/petitions for new forums should be made in the Apolyton/Community forum
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Martin Gühmann
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Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Echinda
You aren't getting much response for two reasons: Martin threadjacked you and the whiners don't like to recognise that they are whiners, so this thread would just be too uncomfortable to post in. 
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quote:
Originally posted by player1
Hmm, I espected more responeses from those people who need such forum.
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So I can't be totally wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Echinda
But you're right - it would be nice if they were moved somewhere else. |
quote:
Originally posted by player1
They need to "dream" about some better game,
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Why not a Dreaming of a better Civ forum.
quote:
Originally posted by player1
I guess they only read threads starting at:
-is civ3 a good game?
-stupid Ai
-I am bored
-Poll: why is civ3 bad game
-blah, blah, blah...
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Sounds familiar, just replace Civ3 with CTP2. But as long as patches are available the whiners will stay. They paided 45 bucks for the game, so it is their right to demand fixes. But in my opinion it is not OK if Firaxis will release MP and some extra features with an expansion pack, people already paid enough for the out of the box game that should contain such features, and expansion pack should only contain maps, scenario's or mods made by Firaxis, that's OK, if the included patches that enables MP for instance is available for free.
Note as long as people are whining they take care about Civ3, when they stop they don't care anymore. But to be honest the sales for Civ3 are good, although it is to expensive for its content, so why should Sid make the fans happy he is already successful and therefore future patches will only fix that really needs to be fixed, so Sid has enough time to focus on gulf.
To be honest I don't believe that Sid is the right persion who can make a new Civ. Of course he played a lot Civ but he never played enough late games on huge maps with many AI's and many Cities. Otherwise he would have added PW and a powerfull city manager. (You said it that CTP1/2 have a better sollution.)
quote:
Originally posted by player1
P.P.S.
hey, Martin...
What have you actually extracted from my own CTP2 mod?
Can you help hexagonian to add those things in Cradle.
So they can "befefit" from my knowledge of AI.
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The PW and Gold boost for the AI.
DiploMod but unfortunatly I had to disable the war over script as it cause a crashed, as a city revolted and that civ formed a new Civ unfortunatly player2 was just destryed, so this Civ was a new player2 and I press end turn and the game crashed. So I reloaded slic the crash happend one turn later. Therefore I disabled war over script and I continued my game to the end of all my opponents.
I did not added your infrastructure and capitilisation slic, I plain to remove the building options for them from the AI build lists.
I added theese goals to my strategies.txt:
[/PHP]
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_ADVERTISING Priority 450000 MaxEval 7 MaxExec 5 } //P1 added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_INCITE_UPRISING Priority 460000 MaxEval 2 MaxExec 1 } //P1 added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_POISON_CITY Priority 460000 MaxEval 7 MaxExec 5 } //P1 added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_THROW_PARTY Priority 440000 MaxEval 5 MaxExec 3 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_SUE Priority 470000 MaxEval 15 MaxExec 5 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_INDULGENCE Priority 480000 MaxEval 15 MaxExec 7 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_FAITH_HEALING Priority 475000 MaxEval 15 MaxExec 7 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_REFUEL Priority 470000 MaxEval 5 MaxExec 4 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_PARADROP Priority 490000 MaxEval 5 MaxExec 3 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_CLEAR_ORDERS Priority 460000 MaxEval 2 MaxExec 1 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_RANGED_ATTACK Priority 405000 MaxEval 25 MaxExec 5 } //MG added
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_SALLY Priority 405000 MaxEval 25 MaxExec 7 } //MG added
[/PHP]
The first three are from you the last ones except the sally goal are from me.
Additional I increased the slider element numbers, that will give the AI an boost start, so it will max out the sliders, the same thing that I do and I want to make the AI to do, too.
I added your build list sequences to my strategies.txt.
So the consequence is that the AI will now build production inprovements and has cities with a high production level. But this will cause a lot of pollution and the citiziens get unhappy, the AI has only the global slides to fight against unhappiness, so it has to lower the settings and therefore the AI performance in the late game decreases. And then there come the point when nothing will help to make the citiziens happy, entertainers are not an option for the AI, so the city will revolt and found a new civ.
The conclusion is to decrease happiness effects by pollution and increase the effects on the environment.
Another thing are the force matches:
PHP:
Offensive { // This block is used when attacking units in the field
AttackMatch 1.1
DefenseMatch 0.6
RangedMatch 0.9
BombardMatch 0.0
ValueMatch 1.0
}
Defensive {
AttackMatch 0.2
DefenseMatch 0.9
RangedMatch 0.2
BombardMatch 0.6
ValueMatch 0.7
}
Harass { // This matching block is now used when attacking cities
AttackMatch 0.9
DefenseMatch 0.5
RangedMatch 0.9
BombardMatch 0.0
ValueMatch 1.0
}
StealthAttack {
AttackMatch 0.9
DefenseMatch 0.0
RangedMatch 0.0
BombardMatch 0.0
ValueMatch 1.1
}
Bombard {
AttackMatch 0.0
DefenseMatch 0.8
RangedMatch 0.0
BombardMatch 1.1
ValueMatch 0.0
}
Special {
// no force matching for special attacks
AttackMatch 0.0
DefenseMatch 0.0
RangedMatch 0.0
BombardMatch 0.0
ValueMatch 0.0
}
}
High numbers mean that the AI needs more forces to execute an attack goal for example. So that means the AI needs more and advaced units in comparison to its opponents. So if you set all the ratios for the attack block to zero every stack with an attack goal will be turned in a suicide command, by the way the settings in the original strategies for the Barbarians and in the original game they attack really everything. And that is why the all the numbers of the special block are set to zero, otherwise special units won't attack something as they have no attack, defence... capabilities. So to make the AI more agressive you have to lower the force match numbers.
Another point is that Peter figured out is that even in war the AI does not employer very much it war strategies like attack, harrass and siege. That's why dave increases the numbers for these goals in the normal strategies so that in Cradle the AI won't focus on City defending even in war, so much.
So what is left: Diplomacy. Peter is working on this issure. And I also found something that could help us in the strategies.txt:
PHP:
//
// DIPLOMACY
//
// priority for fear motivations
FearInvasion 1000
FearCityDefense 1100
FearPiracy 900
FearScienceRank 800
FearMilitaryRank 800
FearTradeRank 800
FearPollution 900
// priority for desire motivations
DesireAttack 800
DesireGold 900
DesireScience 900
DesireMakeFriend 1000
DesireEnlistFriend
the problem is that fear motivations are set to high, a civ should fear another civ, because of its trade rank, if a civ has high trade rank but a very low military rank, than the high trade rank is worth nothing.
So you see it is fixable although without a lot of slic, CTP2 has enough potential to beat Civ"3" AI.
-Martin
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Dr Strangelove
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I'm not that impressed with Civ 3. It just did not advance the Civilization game genre sufficiently to justify itself. Unless someone comes up with some truly brilliant and innovative ideas I don't think that there ever need be a Civ 4.
Last edited by Dr Strangelove on 20-01-2002 at 04:37
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kimmygibler
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I agree, civ3 will refocus efforts back on ctp2. It is the best thing that happened for ctp2.
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18-01-2002 21:02
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