19-01-2002 04:17									#31
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quote: There is already a fundimentalist regime in Saudi Arabia. It is called the House of Saud, the ruling family. They are followers of the extremeist Islamist sect known as Wahabism. Wahabism is the same sect of Islam to which the Taleban belong.

	19-01-2002 04:22									#32
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I think DanS and Lefty are onto it.

Definatley a trial balloon that's been leaked out to gauge public opinion and then they can fine tune how they want to play this out later.

It probably looks better for all parties involved if the discussion is ambiguous, so that nobody really understands who asked who to go and that we just kinda leave quietly. If we announced we were leaving, that kinda looks like we are going with our tails between our legs and that's a political victory for Bin Laden.

The US has invested a tremendous amount of money into Saudi Arabia, modernizing it.

Personally, I am opposed to how we sell our technology, especially our fighters, to foreign governments. If we someday have to oppose one of those governments, and our guys take some losses because the enemy was in F-16s, firing sidewinders at us, that would be tragic. There had better be some safeguards or countermeasures that only we have access to, to defeat those weapons.

I'm all for it. Long as we have an adequate staging area left over to deal with Iraq. I think the Saudi bases were mostly defensive in nature, they can protect themselves and I don't see Saddam offering them any threat.

	19-01-2002 08:38									#33
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand and we should ask them to move their ass over. We're staying.

Congratulations. You've just decided to occupy the friendliest Arab country against its will. Maybe you should grab all the oilfields in Kuwait too, and liberate it directly into Western hands.

	19-01-2002 08:41									#34
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Hey why not!?


I think most of americans would agree that we should sieze them oil fields. I gauruntee they do!...

To the greedy gold-digging house of Saud...its all about monopoly's

	19-01-2002 08:54									#35
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Good riddance.

	19-01-2002 11:04									#36
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Oh yes Ramo

And when there is no oil left, you will be the first person to ***** and moan cause you cant fill up your car and pay rent at the same time.



We need alaska, badly. Screw the caribou. They can go elsewhere...

	19-01-2002 11:24									#37
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Those caribou will kick your ass, even an experienced fighter like yourself faded!!!!

They are big muthurs with sharp antlers!!!

	19-01-2002 18:03									#38
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Some people seem to forget that the current opposition in Saudi Arbia is very anti-american. If they come to power would that be a disaster for American politics in the region. Also Saudi Arabie is the biggest Oil friend in the region who the USA can use to keep the oil price stable, without them with it soar up dramatically.

It is in the best intrests of the USA to keep the current Saudi regime in power and to avoid anything that could destablize it, including a troops on there soil. If the Americans stays is there a chance that radicals will become so popular that they can take over the goverenemt and create a second Afganistan, so they better leave if asked but keep supporting the Saudis with all other means, it's in there best intrests.

	19-01-2002 19:49									#39
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Maybe you should grab all the oilfields in Kuwait too, and liberate it directly into Western hands.

Unnecessary, with some conservation and alternative sources, grabbing all the much closer canadian production should do nicely.

	19-01-2002 21:28									#40
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I never liked Alberta anyway...

Can we have Washington& Oregon in trade?

	19-01-2002 22:01									#41
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I never liked Alberta anyway... Can we have Washington& Oregon in trade?

Will you take Michigan instead? Please?

We're practically Lesser Ontario to begin with.

	20-01-2002 01:25									#42
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I support the creation of an american homeland in the middle east. The areas over the largest oil supplies will do quite nicely, thank you

In all seriousness, I think the USA should launch a crash program to get its dependency on foreign oil to half of what it is today by 2011. It wouldn't be that hard, really; just end productin of SUV's and increase conservation in cars.


As for the Saudis: I'm not too suprised. It was already fairly obvious that Al-Queda gets a good deal of its funds from Saudi Arabia.

The really depressing thing about the middle east is that the muslim nations don't seem to want democracy, except for Iran. Which is an irony, if you like.

	20-01-2002 01:56									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Faeelin In all seriousness, I think the USA should launch a crash program to get its dependency on foreign oil to half of what it is today by 2011. It wouldn't be that hard, really; just end productin of SUV's and increase conservation in cars.

You can't force an end to SUV's. What you can do is put a 'sin tax' on them. That would reduce purchases of them over the long run. The reality is, some people really do need what SUV's provide, so a better engines would work.


A mandatory MPG for all vehicles would be good as well. And it wouldn't hurt to begin moving the military away from oil.


Luckily, Bush has moved Federal funding away from hybrid cars to fuel cell based cars.

	20-01-2002 20:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus

If you have a point, why don't you elaborate? Do you think that a regime that doesn't allow women to drive, forces them to wear the veil, outlaws alcohol, executes adulterers, chops the hands off of thieves, etc., is not a fundimentalist and extremist government? Do you not believe that the Taleban and the Saudis follow the exact same extremeist sect of Islam? Does the fact that Saudia Arabia is one of the few contries that have the Sharia (religious based law) as their legal system not say anything about the nature of their government? Does the fact they were one of three governments in the world to recognize the Taleban as a legitimate government of Afganistan say nothing to you? Does the fact that most of the Taleban's funding came from Saudi Arabia mean nothing to you? Does the fact that the vast majority of the 9/11 attackers came from Saudi Arabia say nothing to you? They still have slavery (de facto), ferchrissakes!


Or maybe you just want to make snyde remarks based on no knowledge?

	20-01-2002 20:14									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Eli You seem to be forgetting who your true allies are.

You mean the Brits and the Canadians? Nah, we know who they are.

You guys certainly don't count. You spy on us. You deliberately attacked the U.S.S. Liberty (and continue to lie about it). You steal plutonium. You help our government flout its laws. And you deliberately continue a moronic war which gets Americans killed. Hardly the actions of true allies.

	21-01-2002 17:51									#46
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quote: If you have a point, why don't you elaborate?

The Saudis are certainly conservative, but in no way extremists. They kicked out Bin Laden for being an "extremist". And yes they are quite backward socially, and way too conservative, but that doesn't make them extremists like the Taliban. Saudi Arabia has no terrorist camps on their soil, and don't hate the west (as much).

	21-01-2002 18:09									#47
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quote: You guys certainly don't count. You spy on us.

Everyone spy on everyone. It's ok.

quote: You deliberately attacked the U.S.S. Liberty

Prove it.

quote: (and continue to lie about it).

Together with your goverment.

quote: You steal plutonium.

I dont know what you're talking about.

quote: You help our government flout its laws.

quote: And you deliberately continue a moronic war which gets Americans killed.

This is your personal opinion. It doesnt count.

quote: Hardly the actions of true allies.

It's not us! It's the ZOG!

	21-01-2002 18:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The Saudis are certainly conservative, but in no way extremists. They kicked out Bin Laden for being an "extremist". And yes they are quite backward socially, and way too conservative, but that doesn't make them extremists like the Taliban. Saudi Arabia has no terrorist camps on their soil, and don't hate the west (as much).

They are extremists. Not as bad as the Taliban, but not far away. Saudi Arabia has no terrorist camps on its soil because the regime (incredibly rotten and corrupt, btw) relies on western namely US support. To counterbalance, they at least tolerate support of extremist activities elsewhere, like the Taliban. And Osama's problem was not being a radical, but being a radical opposed to the regime.

The Taliban's Islamism seems to be related to Wahibism, but I don't know how strong the link is. Vulgar theology (for european parallel, see witchhunts) and Pashtun traditions might have played a similarly important role.