19-01-2002 00:07									#1
	WHAT?????? We know that Bismarck has betrayed our _friends_ the french???? Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah exactly, this was just what my advisor told me. IIRC the French have _NEVER_ been my friends. In addition I have been at war with them till the very end (when the Germans exterminated them).
The french were furious with me most of the time. And a couple (20-30) turns before their end I also took a bunch of their cities.

I really want to know HOW the advisor assumes the French have been my friends?
And I want to know why Bismarck (who was polite before) suddenly has gone annoyed??????
Has it something to do with that the Advisor considered the French my friends???
I helped destroy the french. Now Bismarck is annoyed and the french were my friends???? Sorry I dont get the point!
The french surely were NOT my friends. How do I tell that to the stupid advisor?

Earlier in this game I had similar problems, when I made with every civ an alliance versus the Greeks.
When the Greeks were nearly destroyed I made peace with them (cause I kind of felt sorry for em). And then the stupid advisor again considered the Greeks my friends and EVERY CIV WAS ANNOYED!!!!
Just because I made peace means that now they are my friends???

I think there is something going wrong with the Diplomatic AI. I suggest Soren has another look into it for the next patch.


ata

	19-01-2002 00:15									#2
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I could be wrong, but I don't think that's Soren's doings. I think it's more like the Domestic Nag recommending that you scrap your Hoover Dam project two turns from completion and build a hospital instead.

	19-01-2002 00:21									#3
	Advisors say the darndest things... Got spare money?

My domestic advisor keeps nagging about how my size-12 cities needs a hospital to grow any further, whether I can build those or not. Tell me something useful, like starving or revolting cities.

My foreign advisor looks sad and tells me that the English army has Horsemen, which he thinks is bad for me whether I have Cavalry or not...

My science advisor tells me to increase science spending even if I can get an advance in four turns.

	19-01-2002 00:31									#4
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You will suffer a penalty in reputation if you break an Alliance (or any kind of treaty) less that 20 turns after it was started. Alliances are particularly bad to break.

As for the science advisor, he wanted me to invest more money when my science rate was 100%, and every specialist I had was a scientist...

	19-01-2002 00:47									#5
	Put an end to popups!

I think that only thing that AI knows is that somebody betrayed somebody.

That word friend is just PHRASE.

You could fix that manualy. You find proper text files and delete word friends.

	19-01-2002 01:29									#6
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Yeah, I think any civ you're not actively at war with is a "friend" in the language of your foreign advisor. Of course, the advisors are idiots... but so were Civ II's (those were more amusing, though).

-Arrian

	19-01-2002 02:15									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually by the time the french were destroyed I was still at war with them.

And I gave a rats ass about them. So I give a rats ass about wether someone betrayed them.


The problem here is not that the advisor is stupid, the problem is also why the germans got mad at me.
I wasnt in an alliance with them prior to the defeat of the french! And I wasnt afterwards.
In fact we didnt have any diplomatic contact before and after. Still het got mad.

I mean the worst thing is: They dont tell you WHY they are annoyed. And you cant trade: "Okay I annoyed you, what do you need to make it go away?"

Sure I can give them hundreds of techs. But that does improve NOTHING!!!! I have tried this. They were not a single bit friendlier after I supplied them with loads of techs.

Then I went into a mutual protection pact ("they driven me a hard bargain, but I took it") and ohohoh now they were polite!

I find this rather odd.

Diplomatic AI sure needs some more work.
This is the only point where I think the game might get unplayable.

Late game tedium is not a problem for me since I play mostly on small maps and not go for world-domination.
But when other civs suddenly get annoyed completely out of the blue for no apparent reason this IS a problem!

ata

	19-01-2002 02:36									#8
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The AI civs will get "jealous" of you if you get too powerful, or if they're powerful and you are really weak. You said that there was very little, if any, diplomatic contact between you and Germany. Every successful trade between you and the AI improves relations. MPP's and alliances give big boosts, too.

I have noticed that Bismarck is generally ornery. I think he's coded to be like that - just like Elizabeth is coded to be manipulative and backstabbing.

I had a situation similar to yours (I was a SUPERpower, and Bismarck was "furious" for no reason). My solution, eventually, was to gift him a luxury. His attitude improved dramatically, and though it did start coming back down, it never did again reach "furious."

-Arrian

	19-01-2002 03:18									#9
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Why is everyone gripping??

Look at it from a real world standpoint.

Millitary: Look at those mean taliban soldiers on their horsies: Increase my budget.

Science: We are so slow and technologicaly behind: Increase my budget.

Ambasador/Diplomat: Look at our friends that I am working with, I know we have our differences but they are our friends. Increase my budget.

Mayor/Govenor: We are such a poor city/state, and we need federal help: Increase my budget.

Trade Advisor: Give China Favored Nation Status so we can Trade with them I don't care what they did in the past and present. And Increase my budget.



Personally I think that the advisors act true to form. They are always clamoring for more.

	19-01-2002 06:14									#10
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Giving money on a per turn basis improves your relations on the long term. I did this systemically in a game I won diplomatically (everyone was gracious with me, even if not MPPed).
Also, offering interesting trades to others civs, like "we offer 100 gold per turn for this Iron you only demand 50 for" make them thanksful.
I once traded world maps with the French, who did explore much less than me, and they were as thanksful as if I had given them 1000 gold

	19-01-2002 06:22									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What's even more ridiculous is when you go and attacka civ, trash it down to one or two cities, get peace, and your foreign advisor says "remember, the treacherous --civ name here-- have attacked us before." This happens when I blatantly start a war on a civ that was OK with me to begin with. It makes me want to remind the advisor that I was the treacherous SOB, not the other civ.

	19-01-2002 06:30									#12
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Bismarck never betrayed the French, he just taught them good manners.

	19-01-2002 06:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by LotC What's even more ridiculous is when you go and attacka civ, trash it down to one or two cities, get peace, and your foreign advisor says "remember, the treacherous --civ name here-- have attacked us before." This happens when I blatantly start a war on a civ that was OK with me to begin with. It makes me want to remind the advisor that I was the treacherous SOB, not the other civ.

If the leader of my country was a treacherous SOB I would act like the poor bastards who got stomped on were actually the scum of the earth, too. What would you have done to him if he told you something close to the truth: "Remember, these guys may attack us because you're such a treacherous SOB they've got to be thinking it'll be better to stab your back first." Either way the advice is the same - they are unlikely to live up to the treaty. It's just that the game's way lets the adviser keep his head.

	19-01-2002 11:36									#14
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I find it funny when the foreign advisor says, "Remember, Mao betrayed our friends the Indians." And I think, "Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me, that was funny. Weren't we the ones who helped him rub out the Indians? Like 100 years ago?"

	19-01-2002 18:24									#15
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Arrian:
No we had diplomatic contact, but at the point the french got destroyed there wasnt. Some turns later I checked and found him looking at me so mad.

Maybe I should have gratulated him for his victory and he got mad because I didnt

Ironikinit:
Exactly the same here


ata

	19-01-2002 19:29									#16
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Could someone at Firaxis please tell us they are fixing this bug?

In my current game I choose which nation will be destroyed and when (Like always ), every nation I have been at war against is dead (except the Persians, but that's just a matter of time, every other nation in the world wants to see them dead), I have always been friends with the others and always kept my alliance, BUT still every surviving nation is mad at me, they should be greatfull that they are still alive. I'm tired of reading: "Remember the has betrayed our friends ".

Sure I don't want the advisors to say: "We have betraied this nation before, so they might wanna backstab us someday", but if that is the case, just make the adviser shut up or let them say: "I don't know if we can trust them, so you'd better be careful". That would be much better than to have advisors to lie (Can you trust such advisors?).

	19-01-2002 20:15									#17
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itds be even better if the Advisors said something like "We are such a rich and powerful country, Don`t trust the greedy "____" or something... maybe in another patch or an expansion theyll add more stuff for the advisors to say (crosses fingers)

what erked me was at the beggining of this game i played, the babylonians attacked me at the beggining but i had good defense so i stopped theyre attck.. we made epace and then the crazy germans attacked them and i HELPED the babylonians defend against them... we were on a "polite" basis for the rest of the whole game until out of the blue from nowheres they declared war on me again GRRRRRRRRR NEVER TRUST THE BABYLONIANS!!!

	20-01-2002 03:08									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Wordhertz GRRRRRRRRR NEVER TRUST THE BABYLONIANS!!!

Amend that: never trust anyone. I find it incomprehensible how anyone can leave their cities undefended, cos they will be attacked. And ALWAYS try to work with the assumption that the Civ you're dealing MAY declare war on you the next go. If you always expect the worst, you can't be disappointed.

	20-01-2002 04:03									#19
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quote: If you always expect the worst, you can't be disappointed.

A good slogan for the game.

	20-01-2002 04:30									#20
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Truly