23-01-2002 05:09									#1
	Ideas for WW2 units, once we can get a scenario Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not requesting any units or graphics or anything like
that, just giving ideas, maybe someone else will think they're good and decide to use
them in an upcoming WW2 mod, once we can have actual scenarios that is... These are
just unit ideas for specific units to civs involved in WW2.
USA) --GI-- perhaps a well rounded infantry unit, better than the standard infantry we get
in the game, available either with that unit, or with paratroopers
--B-29-- a heavy bomber, better than the regular bomber, but not as good as the
stealth, available with the regular bomber, maybe with the ability to use some special sort
of bombing attack aka firebombing or nuclear strike, though I'm not sure if that would be
possible to mod, and if it were I don't know about the effects, thats for someone else to
decide.
--Fast Aircraft carrier-- maybe a carrier that costs less, and can hold another plane or
two, representing the ability of American industry to flood the pacific with new, fast, big
carriers and effectively overwhelm the Japanese Navy.
Germany) --Me-262-- A german Jet fighter, available perhaps when everyone else gets
the regular fighter. Germans could get both, the 262 would just be more expensive, and
obviously better.
--Buzzbomb-- A german cruise missle, available with the 262, giving the
Germans the cruise missle early would just add to their ability to be super-powerful.
--Super-Superbattleship-- Now, if anyone saw the History channel's program
"battleships" there was a mention in there of Hitler's plan X or Z or something, in which
he intended to build the biggest, baddest battleship ever. It was to be twice the size of the
Yamato and Musashi (for you history buffs, excluding Iowa class battleships with cruise
missles, these were the biggest baddest battleships ever made in real life. They each
displaced 72,000 tons and had 9 18-inch guns on 3 turrets. For reference, the Bismark
displaced about 50,000 and the Iowas about 55,000 each. Germany's big ship would have
been about 140,000 tons. It never came into being though, because the year earmarked
for its completion was 1944. Even though this one isn't real, I think it's intriguing.
Maybe it would cost something like a wonder, but be way, way ahead of any other
warships in the game.
Japan) --Kamikaze-- Now, I know everyone has talked about this one, but I think
everyone is taking the wrong approach, no offense to anyone. Firstly, I played some good
WW2 scenarios in civ2, 2194 days of war being my favorite, but I still never liked the
way Kamikazes were employed. The Japanese never seriously thought they could win
the war against america after it started to turn around, all they were doing with their
fanatical resistance (kamikazes among other things) was trying to cause enough death on
the americans, that the americans would decide it wasn't worth it, and sign a treaty. In
civ3, we have a great chance to make kamikazes true desperation weapons for the
Japanese, and not just regular units that can be mass-produced so easily. What I propose,
is someone try to find out a way to make a unit that can only be drafted. Therefore, the
Kamikaze would infact cost population, and most likely would become very costly, very
fast, but still could be very powerful an asset as enemy forces moved ever closer to
Japanese targets. I know it doesn't make sense to draft 70,000 citizens (size 7 to size 6 or
whatever) and only get 1 unit, but it doesn't really make sense as it is now, and I at least
think this is a better way to handle kamikazes than the current way. As for the modding
and stuff, don't know if it would work, but its an idea.
--Imperial Marines-- These I would say have just infantry stats but can treat all squares as
roads, to reflect the speed of Japanese troops moving through Malaya and marching on
Singapore at the outbreak of the war (against england)--sometimes even riding bycicles
because it was more efficient through the jungle than cars.
--SuperBattleships-- To reflect the Yamato and Musashi... I would suggest these cost half
of what the German one would cost, and be half as effective, but move at the same pace.
Still, they should be light years ahead of any battleships other people could build. I know
some people would contest that the Iowas were better, but I dunno, the Yamato took 8
heavy bombs and 8 direct torpedo hits to sink on its way to Okinawa at the end of the
war. I want to say it was like, constant bombardment from 6 US carrier wings for 2
hours until the thing finally sank. Besides, everything else about the Japanese forces
should be inferior to the American ones, so I always say give them this.

Well, those are my ideas as of yet. Sorry if I disappointed anyone waiting for my british
or russian ideas, I just don't have any really good ones yet. To be honest, I would love it
when the WW2 scenarios start coming out if it would be possible for the units to be made
available in the normal game--in effect, to be able to play a normal game, and then get
ww2 units at the right time, maybe making up a totally new, but sort of related situation.
I think that would be really fun. So anyway, that's my contribution, meager as it may be.
Keep up the good work everyone, and thanks!

	23-01-2002 08:04									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Think bigger!

-FMK.

	23-01-2002 08:30									#3
	RE: Think Bigger Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, I know... But I just was trying to think of something new. I played 2194 days of war, I think the units in there were Nemo's units. I absolutely loved that scenario!! I played a lot of other ww2 ones, but often found them less memorable.

Really I just hope when these scenarios come out that the new features of the game (civ3) are utilized more. Don't get me wrong, some of the civ2 scenarios were astounding, but I would love to actually have the US place an oil embargo on me (playing as Japan) then use my super battleships to sink convoys, then use kamikazes, but actually feel like they were desperation weapons... I just never liked being able to build them, mass produce them like regular fighters, just seemed so artificial. (well, I know its just a game). And I suggested the German Super-super-battleship and the B29 mostly just because they came to my mind as things that had not been done yet. I was trying to think outside the box, but with the Yamato and Musashi, I just can't help mention those. (In case no one figured it out, I love playing as the axis powers, not that I advocate them in real life, I just find the history fascinating from their points of view, and its just more fun in games to play as them. I think)

But, I'm blabbering, anyhoo, I am well aware of the awesome things that came out of civ2 WW2 scenarios, and the possibilities for civ3 are just mind-boggling... (going crazy with anticipation) I just wish I were good at making units, and that we had working scenarios, then I'd try to make my own!!!

	25-01-2002 22:24									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Some of the units I was thinking of for a WWII mod would be tanks.
The Germans already have the panzer tank in the game, but latter in the war they devoloped better tanks. One tank they had was the Tiger tank. It had a 100mm gun, or something around that figure and was the biggist tank gun of that time. It had lots of armor. In one battle with russian tanks, one tank got hit over 200 times and was still in good shaped. I got this information form the histoy cannel by the way.

The Russians could have the T-31 tank, better than the panzer but not as good as the German's Tiger tank.

For the Americans and Maybe rust of the other civs on allied side of the war, could have current tank you first get, but really cheap thus easy to make. The only way the american tanks won was by shear number. The tank was mainly built for speed, had light armor and guns.

In WWII the germans really never had a very strong navy. Hilter was planning to build up his navy, but WWII sharted before he could finish. Thus they did not have as many battle ships as other sea powers of the time. I would think for their navy, U-boat unit would be better than a super battle ship. It could have better attack value than the regular sub everyone else gets.

English could get a special fighter.

Also just want to add this bit of info, both americans and english had jet aircraft. The amercan one though was in no way close to being a fighter, but they had a protype for a jet aircraft none the less. The English did have a protype of a jet fighter.

	25-01-2002 23:09									#5
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TVA22 their is a easy way to make kamikazes cost population points. All you do is have them cost population points when you build them just like settlers. I think in one mod someone made armies cost pop points when you build them.

	26-01-2002 22:31									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Jack_www if you want to look for tanks then try this website its the one i'm using to get ideas for tanks in a scenario. It exceeds its data transfer limit quite a bit but when you get in it has a lot of info. One thing that would be difficult to represent was the Russian tanks reliablity in the cold and muddy conditions of the russian winters.


The Germans didn't have a strong navy, but they're ships were generally superior as they were newer and purpose built. Take the Bismark as an example, the British equivalent was the Hood. The Bismark sunk the Hood with the 8 or 9th shell it ever fired, because the Bismark was a fully armoured new battleship, the Hood was a converted much earlier vessel which wasn't even fully armoured. The British eventually sunk the Bismark after a comical pursuit involving almost the entire Atlantic Fleet and some ships from the Mediterrain Fleet.


The English special fighter has to be the Spitfire, the best known of the RAF's fighters. I think that each side needs their own special fighter and bomber (possibly more then one they were extremely important in WW2).


Allied planes also had internal radar much earlier then the Axis so were far superior in night missions. Jet fighters weren't really much use during WW2, they were unreliable, they're only advantage was they were extremely difficult to shoot down due to their speed.


One of the biggest problems I see with Civ3 as it is that fighters and bombers aren't that usefull (i've never built or used any). Something would need to be done to make them more usefull.


As for units you don't normally see, how about commandos and SOE (Special Operations Executive) for the English. They were used extensively in France and worked with the French resistance (which obviously would be a French unit, only avaiable after the French have lost a city). Can't really think of any other infantry units, except Russian partisans.


I haven't really thought about the Japanese as I don't think you can do a war in Europe and the Pacific in the same scenario. I'm only planning a Europe scenario at the moment.


Wow that's quite a long first post isn't it. Anyone got any ideas about how culture would work in a WW2 scenario? I think it would have to disabled for everything except country borders. Think i'll leave it at that for now.

	26-01-2002 22:47									#7
	Jack_www Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh... heheehee I never even thought about making kamikazes that way!! Hahahaha. Good idea though, I can't believe I didn't think of that.

I totally agree about tanks, and I agree they should be big players in a ww2 scenario. (I'm just more of a ship fan than a tank fan) I think we'll end up with lots of unique units, and I thought it would be a cool what if had Hitler's plan for that super battleship into reality. In civ terms, think of how powerful a unit would have to be if it cost you 400 shields or whatever, something like the UN. Maybe that one ship could break through the royal navy and start severing the link between america and britian. I mean, just think about a battleship with guns like Big Bertha on it! It'd be scary. U-boats, yes, I do think that the germans should be able to get them, but I think the best parts of ww2 scenarios are when you have a really interesting what if, like the axis powers win.

That's why I think avenues should be open to things that didn't really happen in real life. Even the Me262 is a bit far fetched--by the time they could be mass produced, German infrastructure was destroyed. But that's just my thoughts.

	26-01-2002 23:00									#8
	Katar Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Any idea how we could also lengthen the range of bombers and fighters beyond operational range of 8? Has anyone seen this done yet, or is this hardcoded.

I think a ww2 scenario could be done on Marla's map with the whole world. Of course I realize that lots of things would be left out, like detailed countrysides of europe and such with cities and even little villages (like I've seen in some civ2 scenarios) but often I tire of something THAT detailed, I like it a bit more simplified. On the aircraft, fighters and bombers would be even more worthless on that map, as they can't fly far enough, which is why I wanted to know about the op. range.

Ach, got to go to work now... I'll check up on this in 9 or 10 hours or so. (god, I'm such a loser hahahahahahahaha)

	13-02-2002 22:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I just got anther idea for a WW2 unit. I was watching the History Channel just the other day, it was a program on the plans that Japan and Germany made to take over the world. It also talked about the different ways they thought of to try to attack the United States homeland. The Japanese came up with a sub that was also a aircraft carrier. The larger ones could hold 3 planes and the smaller verision only 2 planes. They took a very long time for Japan to make them and there were finished near the end of WW2. This would be an interesting unit for the Japanese to have.