23-01-2002 12:57									#1
	Just HOW STUPID can the AI get?? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

How stupid can the AI get?? Well, besides cheating, it is so dumb it did this:

I am attacked by the Babylonians. But I quickly develop iron and start winning. I storm into Babylon itself and push my troops towards the new capital, Ur.

I then get a message that "The Babylonians are building the Pyramids"!!!

Civ II pulled this same nonsense. The Babs are desperately in need of troops to stop me, but they start building a Great Wonder!

Civ II. Civ III. Some stupidities remain the same.

	23-01-2002 13:06									#2
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they figure they can hold you off for 100 years. Once those pyramids kick in the population explosion will fuel their war production machine making them invincible.

	23-01-2002 13:15									#3
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Yeah

Encomium, you are continuing to demonstrate not the stupidity of the AI but... oh well

	23-01-2002 14:42									#4
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At that point you halt your invasion waiting for them to complete the wonder for you that you can then take...

How many times in civ2 I can say that to be true!

	23-01-2002 16:25									#5
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And exactly WHERE did they built the wonder?

	23-01-2002 18:31									#6
	As stupid as humans Get a bigger avatar today!

Consider human history, the AI is just doing a good job of imitating the follies of our past.

	24-01-2002 04:59									#7
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Perhaps they were all gonna hide in these "pyramids." You gotsta pretend every now and then...

	24-01-2002 06:31									#8
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This seems similar to their Civ II/SMAC idiocy where everyone that could would start on a wonder as soon someone was about to finish it. And I've seen that happen in Civ 3 as well.

	24-01-2002 06:37									#9
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The thing is that you don't know in what city a wonder is being built. Even if one did, they would have to spy on that city to see how far it was from completing the wonder. So, the AI doesn't generally *know* that you are about to complete it.

I don't think things need to change, because there are strategies to take advantage of the AI if it did. Have one city work on a wonder, while the AI civs don't bother starting work because you're so far ahead. When you discover a tech letting you build a new wonder, switch production in that city to the new wonder and start over with the first wonder in another city. Voila, you're equal in work on the original wonder while you're finishing an even better one.

Needless to say the AI can switch production too, and if you win the wonder race they'll switch to a "preproduced" university or somesuch.

	24-01-2002 07:57									#10
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quote: So, the AI doesn't generally *know* that you are about to complete it.

if you believe the ai doesn't cheat, anyway

	24-01-2002 08:04									#11
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I don't think the AI cheats (other than its known bonuses), but I do think the other civs are very good at working together against the player sometimes

Of course, if the civ has an embassy connection, I wouldn't be surprised if the AI goes through the player's cities one by one to check them out. But I don't know, I'm playing Monarch and I've built all the wonders I cared about (on archipelago, continent-only wonders such as Pyramids are hardly worth building).

	24-01-2002 08:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MonsterMan Of course, if the civ has an embassy connection, I wouldn't be surprised if the AI goes through the player's cities one by one to check them out. But I don't know, I'm playing Monarch and I've built all the wonders I cared about (on archipelago, continent-only wonders such as Pyramids are hardly worth building).

Exactly! I don't understand why people thinks the AI is cheating when all it's doing is using an option that's available to the human player as well. If you really want to know how far along a civ is with their Wonder, all you have to do is spend a little gold and go through every city until you find it. The AI is just doing the same thing. As I said in another post, maybe that's why the other civs always seem not to have any money in their treasury.

	24-01-2002 20:07									#13
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by MonsterMan
The thing is that you don't know in what city a wonder is being built. Even if one did, they would have to spy on that city to see how far it was from completing the wonder. So, the AI doesn't generally *know* that you are about to complete it.

Yes you can find out which city a wonder is being built in for free just look at the wonder screen (F? cant remember as i am at work) and it shows who is building what wonder. you can judge how long it will take my looking at the size of the city and shields available. You know the start date (you get a pop up) and just divide number of shields required / estiamted shields per turn. If its tight you can investigate the city.

Bye the way the AI allways starts building wonders even if hasnt a hope of winning.

	25-01-2002 01:41									#14
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F7 is the wonder screen.

	25-01-2002 01:46									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ironikinit F7 is the wonder screen.

I had no idea this option was available... thanks!

	25-01-2002 11:32									#16
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Why does the computer always keep its outdated units?

Although, I'll admit, there is a certain appeal to tearing through a stack of warriors with my tank battalions.

The computer can be stupid. But at least you never quite know what'll do next...

	25-01-2002 18:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Psycho_Mantis Why does the computer always keep its outdated units? Although, I'll admit, there is a certain appeal to tearing through a stack of warriors with my tank battalions. The computer can be stupid. But at least you never quite know what'll do next...

I've look at player-posted games, and people sometimes keep low-tech units for garrisons too. I mysefl sometimes use them like the computer -- to harass the enemies supply lines.

	02-02-2002 14:08									#18
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I don't think the AI is stupid when it doesn't update units. The choice is between updating the unit to slightly better values, or supporting it for maybe sixty turns. I try to think that while this unit may be worthless, it's still a military unit. It can fortify in cities to make (communist) people happy, or it can be a look-out spotting suspicious enemy movement, or it can capture workers and cannons. They are also good as cannon fodders, keeping enemy troops occupied while my real forces move in. So, keeping some outdated units and spending the "extra" money on building brand new ones can be a good idea.

Plus of course, old units are good door-stops. Send them out to cut off access to parts of the unsettled continent you want to keep, etc.

	02-02-2002 19:55									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MonsterMan I don't think the AI is stupid when it doesn't update units.

I agree. The AI has taught me to never underestimate the destructive potential of a spearman sauntering across your territory. Indeed, the fact that many people complain about spearmen indicates their usefulness, as according to "Zachriel's Nightmare Strategy".

Beware the lowly Spearman!
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/CounterAttack.htm

	02-02-2002 20:05									#20
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It seems as if the AI is almost always short of money- so this is the reason why they rarely upgrade units. I think they try to set the science/ and or luxuries rate as high as possible, so many civs always have 0 gold. Hence old units are not upgraded.

But... When a civ changes to democracy, they become rich quickly and actually upgrade quite many of their units.

In my current game, I was in shock when I found that most of Persian cities had Infantry in them - I expected to find spearmen!

	02-02-2002 20:53									#21
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quote: Originally posted by sgrig It seems as if the AI is almost always short of money- so this is the reason why they rarely upgrade units. I think they try to set the science/ and or luxuries rate as high as possible, so many civs always have 0 gold. Hence old units are not upgraded. But... When a civ changes to democracy, they become rich quickly and actually upgrade quite many of their units. In my current game, I was in shock when I found that most of Persian cities had Infantry in them - I expected to find spearmen!

Yes, I agree. I was advancing on a city once. The enemy had riflemen. When I attacked they had all infantry. It was quite a surprise. Fortunately, I had plenty of cannon and a good mountain to fire on the city from.