24-01-2002 02:10									#1
	Archipelago? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Which setup should I use to get a map with a lot of islands?

I have started a few games using the archipelago setting and minimal landmass, and all I got was a string of land masses ("islands" I suppose) connected with land "bridges" so that you could walk between them. I have tried the small, standard and large settings.

Is that a bug or a feature? I do hope that it is possible to generate a map with islands.

	24-01-2002 03:38									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I wanted to do the same thing, I just had to do a few new maps before i got the intended results from the generator

you could always make your own..

	24-01-2002 15:04									#3
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Hmm, can the editor make random maps like the game itself? If not, then it will be too much work. Besides, I like to play on an unknown map.

	24-01-2002 19:35									#4
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Yes, the editor can make its own maps. Then just save them and load them as a map in the game. If you want a serious island game though, you'll have to play on Large or Huge maps. Standard just isn't big enough to support more than a few of even the smallest islands (smallest island = smallest size still capable of being a valid starting position). A Huge Archipelago map is very interesting though... almost as good as a Tiny Pangea with 16 civs.

	24-01-2002 19:41									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yeah It's like that even on Large... dunno about
Huge yet... I'd like to play on small island too, but with archipelago I get continent-sized masses with multiple civs on each (maybe one or two islands with only 1 civ)

	24-01-2002 20:01									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

By the same token (and I think there was a thread on this) Pangea maps have islands.

	24-01-2002 22:04									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yeah I was pretty peeved when my pangea map had a whole other continent with only 1 civ on it. Ended the game with just me and him left.

I did make a map with no water on it at all bar rivers, that was amusing until it repeatedly crashed.

	24-01-2002 22:34									#8
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The 'continents-instead-of-islands' problem only seems to occur when starting a game by means of the Quick Start option. I think I never encountered it when starting an explicitly defined game. A bug for sure.

IMO archipelago is the most fun way to play, but a serious drawback is that the Great Lighthouse is utterly unbalancing in this world model.

	24-01-2002 22:40									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: The 'continents-instead-of-islands' problem only seems to occur when starting a game by means of the Quick Start option. I think I never encountered it when starting an explicitly defined game. A bug for sure.

I'm fairly sure (although not 100% certain) that my map had the land bridge between islands thing without quick starting.

Maybe I quick started though, I wasn't specifically looking out for this (usually play pangea and so didn't know it was an issue) and so didn't pay that much attention.

	25-01-2002 15:38									#10
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There certainly is an initialization problem when restarting games. I'm not sure about the exact conditions, but I have noticed that it doesn't always reset the civilization setup - this is esp. noticeable when you change the map size and is suggests e.g. a large map with only two other civs.

The "land bridge between islands" problem is annoying, and must be deliberate. It's the kind of problem you cannot avoid noticing during testing. I wonder if they made it to help the AI expand - they don't seem to prioritise making ships. If so, then it does suck - but that is only speculation.

	25-01-2002 15:43									#11
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If you check out the map icons in specifying the specs for your playing world, you'll see that the continents get fatter as the water setting is lowered. Ie, play with 80% water archipelago to get islands. Some islands are bigger than others.

	25-01-2002 16:54									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MonsterMan If you check out the map icons in specifying the specs for your playing world, you'll see that the continents get fatter as the water setting is lowered. Ie, play with 80% water archipelago to get islands. Some islands are bigger than others.

I do, but I still get land bridges between the islands. I guess I need to experiment with very large maps in the editor.

	29-01-2002 14:14									#13
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I set up a huge game with archipelagos, the smallest landmass and three other civs and managed to start out alone on a decent sized island. It appears that two of the other civs are sharing a landmass, so the archipelago setting is not too reliable after all.

Unfortunately, I had no horses, only one luxury and my one iron resource disappeared rather quickly. Bad luck, as I had picked the Egyptians - I was stuck with units with move 1.

Even with the Ligthouse I could only find two other very small islands, so I had to play a waiting game until I got Galleons (couldn't build Frigates - no Iron ). I was appararently the first to use them, even though the other civs all have greater score and power than me (they probably each cover a larger landmass). I have now found three other unsettled islands of a reasonable size.

By now (ca. 1600) the turn processing is slowing down significantly, so I may choose to abandon it in favor of a smaller game. This game seems to be too much for my measly PIII/550 with 256M RAM and 32M graphics card . I could probably get a cultural victory, but that is mainly because I have added culture points to a number of city improvements.

One thing puzzles me: The American caravels and galleys are now crossing oceans with impunity, spewing out settlers and attacking my galleons. Will a tech advance allow them to do so (I don't have the game here)?

	30-01-2002 03:53									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

One thing puzzles me: The American caravels and galleys are now crossing oceans with impunity, spewing out settlers and attacking my galleons. Will a tech advance allow them to do so (I don't have the game here)?

The Great Lighthouse will give you the monopoly on ocean crossing for quite a while, but when Navigation comes into play (around the end of modern age) the playing field is leveled again.

	30-01-2002 05:05									#15
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If two continents, or Islands are conected by shore or coast tiles are they the same continent?

I mean, Islands in our world aren't their own continents, they are part of their home continent... Like Great Britain... it's part of Europe. And Greenland is actually a part of North America... so when building a Pyramid, does it affect another island if it's connected by sea or coast tiles?

	31-01-2002 15:14									#16
	tiny PANGEA 60% water, NOT Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

[I think this is the appropriate thread]

Yesterday I tried 5 times to play on a tiny pangea 60% (lowest amount of water) water map. After finding out the first time after playing for some time that I actually was alone on a continent, I restarted a couple of times to be able to retire and look at the entire revealed mini map. And guess what, it never was pangea. Instead it always was, one big continent and one medium sized continent. Once it even was two normal sized continents with each two civilizations on it...
On the other hand when chosing normal amount of water (70%), the pangea actually almost allways is a pangea.

Did anybody else ever encountered this? Is there an 'offcial' place where I can submit this info?

	02-02-2002 13:26									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh yes, I forgot to mention something.

In the editor, under map sizes I think, you can specify the distance between civs. Land bridges on archipelago maps may occur because the distance is too close, ie two civs really do get separate islands, but the islands are so close they meld.

Try doubling the distance.

I'm attaching a save with the nice archi map I'm playing on, so you can check it out.

Attachment: patriks archi-map 4000 bc.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).