24-01-2002 18:02									#1
	Does the AI use espionage? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I havent ever caught the AI yet stealing any of my maps or techs or such. I dont even have ever caugt a mole of them.
I mean I have tried often to expose an enemy mole, but it never worked (although I had chosen the most expensive option). To mee this seemed like there wasnt any.

Sometimes espionage comes in handy. For example to check out defending troops in a city.
Or having a spy is great benefit as it allows you to view the number of his forces in the military advisor.
But anything else I dont use them much.

ata

	24-01-2002 18:21									#2
	Re: Does the AI use espionage? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I havent ever caught the AI yet stealing any of my maps or techs or such.

I remember some messages telling me that a spy has been captured in one of my cities trying to do something, so the AI has to use espionage. But I doubt there will be a message telling you that an agent was successful in trying to steal your plans secretly...

	24-01-2002 19:38									#3
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I have gotten messages that I have caught spies trying to be planted and spies trying to steal tech. I have also succeeded when trying to root out spies in my capital with my own spies, which means the AI had successfully planted them.

So, yes, the AI uses espionage.

	24-01-2002 20:21									#4
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Hmm Ive heard a couple of guys complaining about the AI cheating to gain new techs....
So is their use of Espionage only something to annoy us or really a method for them to win the game?
I mean does the AI use Espionage-techn. like Sabotage or something like that?

Btw. hey coldfever guess who is also living in Luebeck (at least sometimes)?

	24-01-2002 20:42									#5
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The AI never has enough money to use espionage as i have it all (2,500 gold per turn ) bet they tone down the prices the AI will buy techs at in the next patch. I never use espionage myself any way - I have better uses for the money. Its one of the many game imbalances that suggest rushed development and play testing.

	24-01-2002 21:13									#6
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okay that answers my questions thanx for the replies


Planting a Spy is IMO very important before deciding to be friendly or not

ata

	24-01-2002 21:52									#7
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Spies are ridiculously important in order to figure out if you want to invade someone in late-game. I try to steal techs if I'm far behind or to gain vital tech advances a few turns early (i.e. armor, spaceship parts, etc.) and I sometimes investigate cities during war to see what I'm up against. That's about it though, the other things are pretty pointless and way too expensive.

	25-01-2002 01:49									#8
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Once in a while propaganda is useful for getting one of those small cities the AI likes to build in areas remote from its capital and nearer to mine.

I think the AI also uses propaganda to encourage city flips, but I have no way of knowing for certain.

	25-01-2002 02:23									#9
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Gee, thanks, Ironik. When we need more wild-ass guesses, we'll call you.

	25-01-2002 02:29									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Gee, thanks, Ironik. When we need more wild-ass guesses, we'll call you.

And when we need boneheaded opinions we'll call you.


But in truth it does seem that the AI does use propaganda when they take a city and their treasury drops appropriately.

	25-01-2002 02:43									#11
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I like your logic. Reminds me of the man who mixed whiskey with water and got drunk. The next day, he mixed rum with water and got drunk. The third day, he mixed vodka with water and got drunk. Since water was the common element each time, he concluded that water was making him drunk.

	25-01-2002 02:47									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian I like your logic. Reminds me of the man who mixed whiskey with water and got drunk. The next day, he mixed rum with water and got drunk. The third day, he mixed vodka with water and got drunk. Since water was the common element each time, he concluded that water was making him drunk.

I'm sorry to here your confusion about water, but you still have yet to address the question in this thread. Maybe you have had too much water today.

	25-01-2002 02:49									#13
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The question? [...shrug...] Maybe we could try Miss Cleo.

	25-01-2002 02:59									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian The question? [...shrug...] Maybe we could try Miss Cleo.

I love how you show your intelligance

	25-01-2002 03:02									#15
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Well, what the heck, Shaggy? We're all here just guessing at this and a bazillion other questions. I know you think Firaxis is the Great And Powerful Oz, but all we see are men behind a curtain. And they like to keep it shut.

	25-01-2002 03:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Well, what the heck, Shaggy? We're all here just guessing at this and a bazillion other questions. I know you think Firaxis is the Great And Powerful Oz, but all we see are men behind a curtain. And they like to keep it shut.

Still you stonewall.

	25-01-2002 03:09									#17
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Stonewall?

You mean you want a wild-ass guess from me to go along with yours and Ironik's?

	25-01-2002 03:49									#18
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Fact: the AI occasionally gets busted attempting to plant spies in my cities.

Fact: Cities occasionally flip in a pattern consistant with that of when I use propaganda.

Conclusion: Yeah, the AI probably uses propaganda too.

No need for you to make guesses, Lib. I think you should stick with being a crybaby. It's your real strength.

Let me know if you need this post explained to you.

	25-01-2002 09:06									#19
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Espionage is a waste of time.

Too expensive; too ineffective.

Even lowering costs in Editor doesn't make it worthwhile.

I've had failed atempts to expose a mole a dozen times in a row on different turns in different games.

If the AI uses Espionage it just proves again how STUPID it still is.

	25-01-2002 09:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Encomium I've had failed atempts to expose a mole a dozen times in a row on different turns in different games.

And you ended up at war, I assume. Did it occur to you that the AI may not have placed a spy?

Yeah, the AI is the stupid one.

	25-01-2002 09:37									#21
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Yes, the AI uses espionage, to some degree or another. I've had the advisor inform me of spies being caught in my cities. Seems to happen more often when I have the intelligence agency.

Any other answer is speculation, unless it comes from the developer (and I wouldn't hold your breath on that one).

By the way, why is it every thread seems to spawn a catfight between ****gy and Libertarian?

	25-01-2002 14:32									#22
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Because Libertarian cant stand NOT talking about how stupid civ3 is!

Must be some sort of addiction to the forums. If I dont like the game, man I really wouldnt be here anymore. But of course opinions differ and some people like to

ata

	25-01-2002 16:30									#23
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Ah, Libertarian makes life on the forum interesting. The hurt boy soothing his demons by trying to make positive players unhappy.

Encomium is a picante touch too; the fool who thinks he knows the game, spreading lies and cursing Firaxis instead of his own stupidity.

	20-02-2002 18:57									#24
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Just the plain message "we caught an enemy spy...blah whatever" does not mean the ai is actually obtaining anything from similar espionage actions. Maybe it just gets the techs via a stupid logarithm ..."Oh the ai lacks 10 of the known techs (that means the player has those 10)...hmm I(the programm) declare the tech radio as common knowledge and give it to the ai"...this way I would never have the chance to catch any spies and those messages are actually just show-off-messages with no purpose.

	20-02-2002 19:16									#25
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My spies were never caught until now, once they were established. We must assume that many spies are working in our capitals. The only information they obtain are the Military Advisor ones, I assume. And, well, who really cares? The A.I. can obtain any information it wants from the next data array in the game memory.