26-01-2002 00:42									#1
	massive barbarian uprisings Increase Your PM Length

What causes uprisings?

This is the 2nd game in a row that (right around 1 AD) I got a "massive barbarian uprising near _____." Last game, it was a stack of 24 barbarian horsemen that landed next to a couple new cities. This game, there were two different places (I think they may have been un-popped huts deep in the mountains) where stacks of 24 horsemen suddenly showed up near my outlying cities. One of these stacks passed a unit of mine so I saw it coming, but the other decimated a size 7 city (destroyed production on a half-done wonder and reduced population to 2) that was garrisoned with an elite Spearman, an elite Jaguar Warrior, and an elite Horseman, all fortified. This city was connected by roads, but separated by a river, so there was really no hope of anybody getting there.

I suppose this is just something that happens, and you need to garrison your outlying cities with several Spearmen. After all, I was playing on Raging Hordes. It just seems really strange that I never saw anything like this pre-patch, but now in the two games I've played post-patch, I've run into stacks of 24 barbarian horsemen.

Yes, I've only played two games that made it into the AD years since the patch ... I've mostly been replaying the Ancient Era over and over to improve my early game.

	26-01-2002 01:10									#2
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FYI, I had a Barbarian Horde reported pre-patch. They didn't show immediately and I abandoned the game then due to an impossibly poor start and unfairly aggressive AI ...

... so I don't know if it was a stack of 24.

I was on Regent with Raging Barbs.

Ben

	26-01-2002 01:17									#3
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It's very dangerous to leave barb encampments sitting around, especially at higher activity and difficulty levels - eventually they will burp out a huge stack of horses. One of my early game goals is to clean up the barbarian encampments and establish line of sight on my entire continent. Barb camps will always pop up in the fog; if you never turn your back on the white boats, they will never land.

Note that the AIs will make a beeline for barb camps, passing blithely through your territory to attack the barbs. Since the AIs don't suffer from your reduced advantage over the barbs at higher difficulty levels, it can be worthwhile to let a friendly AI clear out the camp (as long as you don't mind them picking up the 25 gold bonus).

	26-01-2002 01:18									#4
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With Raging Barbs that's what you get. They are easily defeated, but you need to have extra units to do it.

	26-01-2002 01:21									#5
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Why do forgotten huts always have 25 gold? Is there a specific date where huts stop giving tech/warriors/settlers? Or is it just the random huts that pop up in unsettled areas after the start of the game that can only have gold?

	26-01-2002 01:51									#6
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In my own experience, the stacks are 24 horsemen and you are told they are approaching at least 2 turns before they attack your city. 3 spearmen fortified behind walls are needed to stop them. If you don't think you can manage it, just sell anything inside, move your poor troops away and use your cash elsewhere, because, if you fight them and lose the city, it can be very costly, since any horseman coming to the city after your last defender has got killed will pillage some gold from your treasury (I think I lost more than 500 gold the first (and only) time this happened to me).

But, contrary to Dave, I find it handy to have a nice place close to me where I can fetch 25 gold almost any time I send someone there. That's why I usually protect my nearest city and avoid to disturb the barbs otherwise than by destroying their camp for 25 gold as often as possible.

	26-01-2002 05:45									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dimension, when you enter the 2nd era there will be no more tech, etc from the huts. Still get money.

By then, you should have a nice tech lead.

	26-01-2002 11:51									#8
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I get hordes with just roaming, from time to time. I love the camps, I just do not let them stay for long. Sent in horse and later a knight, then calv to collect the 25 bucks. If they are allowed to stand for a long time they seem to send in hordes. If the Great Wall is yours (not often) it is double damage againt barbs until obsolete. I just had one in last Monarch game, doing an EMP now.

	26-01-2002 18:12									#9
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Just a few minutes ago I had a barbarian uprising in my monarch/restless game. I had a stack of 16 barbs, attacking my city defended with 2 spearmen (1 vet, 1 elite). 1 spearman survived with 1 hp, but held the city.

Interestingly, in the same turn I saw (while sending an assault force to the English) the same scenario happen with the AI. There were also 16 barb horsies attacking Canterbury. They took down all defenders except of 1 spearman with 1 hp. Helped me a lot, 1 swordsman strike and the city was history .

So the AI suffers from those uprisings as well.

	28-01-2002 22:16									#10
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Hmm, do the uprisings only come from barb camps? I thought this had happened to me when all my territory was in line of sight. Either way it sucks, though last time it was fun watching one standard (upgraded to elite along the way) spearman (with no walls) munch his way through 15-20 of the buggers before succumbing. I really thought he was going to make it...........

	28-01-2002 22:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Hmm, do the uprisings only come from barb camps? ...

As far as I can see, yes. They seem to come from barb camps you didn't take care for too long. Their number seems to depend on the barb setting (raging produces stacks of about 24). You need roughly 3 vet spearmen or 2 vet hoplites to hold the fort.

	29-01-2002 12:50									#12
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You WIMPS!
In the editor I changed the combat advantage against barbarians to 0% on all levels except chieftan!

I presently like to play at Regent level. I figured that the barbs ought to have a 'fair' chance like everyone else, and if there was greater threat to me this way, at least there would also be a similar threat to the AIs.

	29-01-2002 14:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe You WIMPS! In the editor I changed the combat advantage against barbarians to 0% on all levels except chieftan!

Negative cheating?

Why not, after having read about so many cheats in the other direction it's nice to read about someone, who still seeks a challenge in the game . But I love to play out of the box with only graphical mods (can't stand the original trees, huts, irrigations etc.), I have to take my disadvantages against the AI, so let me enjoy my advantages against the barbs .

	29-01-2002 23:16									#14
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Just play at diety, you get either 0 or 50 bonus for barbs, no need to change anything. Some might say playing at regent and calling others wimps, is strange.

	29-01-2002 23:42									#15
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I get hordes with just roaming, from time to time. I love the camps, I just do not let them stay for long. Sent in horse and later a knight, then calv to collect the 25 bucks.

Eh? I'm puzzled. Every time I hit a camp, it's gone, permanently. One-shot 25 gold. How can you do it repeatedly?

	30-01-2002 00:07									#16
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Yes, but they'll show up again if you _accidentally_ leave a spot not in the line of sight...........

	30-01-2002 10:03									#17
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Yup, just smash the camp and leave the area and soon it will rebuild in that area. Nice friendly 25 every now and then, and a training camp for my units. Just be sure not to forget or you will get the hordes showing up at the gates.

	30-01-2002 19:48									#18
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The major uprisings come from a camp that you neglected to wipe out. This is true before and after the patch and its frequency and amount is determined by your game setting.

In tournament # 3 I left a camp on the shoreline to have it produce barbarian ships that would deter the other civ’s from coming down the coast and landing on my backside. It worked after a fashion, as at least two barbarian ships are needed to kill an AI ship. The raging hordes it produced however stripped my land of units to get rid of them. The other civs sensing my weakness went to war and delivered the crushing blow.

Oscillating barbarian camps work best if you have two separate areas in the fog. As you kill one camp another instantly pops up somewhere else on the map close to a civ. If you have the only foggy areas you can raid for a camp every two/three rounds. A great money generator but requires space that competitive civs love to stick settlers on.

	21-02-2002 01:52									#19
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This is one serious disincentive to exploring a large jungle area, and then not settling it. Two or three barb camps will spring up and eventually send really vast hordes against you. Even though the barbs are conscript horsemen, I have not had the luck others have claimed here against these stacks. Three veteran spearmen may take down 6 to 12 barbs, but seldom more than 20. Thus, some treasury is at risk when these guys emerge. In one game, I had a city hit with 30 barbs, then later by 72 in two waves, all emerging from that jungle. After sending my troops and settlers in there to end that I found the remains of another civ's city, now gone. That may account for the missing 18 - 42 barbs from group 1. Walls make a big difference. Maybe that's how the earlier authors held out. Even with walls, three vet spearman and an elite swordsmen fell before the 72 barbs. My reinforcements were too late, as I didn't blunder into the second stack early enough.

However, if your civ is on a northern or southern edge of the map, a couple of foggy areas in the tundra can make you rich at 25 gold a pop. If rivals settle there, burn them out, then wait. The barbs will return. Just don't forget to patrol.

	21-02-2002 04:23									#20
	Managing barbarians Got spare money?

• Actively search for the huts, preferably with several Horsemen or similar units where the move and power are both greater than 1. Destroy them as you find them. If your horsie gets damaged in combat, fortify him until he heals, them keep him patrolling. Removing the huts quickly greatly reduces your chance of uprisings because uprisings generally appear in encampments that have been in place for a while.
  
  
• Settle the wilderness as quickly as possible, even if its jungle or desert. A useless size-3 city until 1500 AD is better than permitting barbarians. As a bonus, the AI will no longer try to send settlers there.
  
  
• Connect all your cities by roads, and have at least 2 defensive units in each city, preferably spearmen or better. It should be possible to get a garrison of 4 good defensive units in any city at short notice. If your threatened city is connected to only one city that is in range, empty the other city, and send a unit up from another interior city to garrison the empty city. It is generally safe to leave an interior city without a garrison for a turn or so.
  2 units in each city also makes you appear stronger militarily and dissuades the AI from making war with you.
  
  
• "Massive uprisings" are reported to you the turn the 24 or so horsemen are spawned in the encampment square. Thus the length of time before your city is attacked varies depending on the distance the encampment is from your city. However, it is possible that the uprising is not reported to you; this happened to me in my current game with 1.17 because the encampment was a long way from my city. 24 Knights (a mod) appeared without warning. I couldn't defend the city in time, so I used up my treasury making embassies to cut my losses.
  
  
• When the uprising is reported to you, rush-build walls in that city if it is size 2 to 6. Losing one citizen to a despotic rush-build is preferable to losing lots of citizens and gold to barbarians. Walls do make a difference with barbarians, so use them.
  
  
• Protect your workers, because they are dead meat if barbarians are around. If the barbarian has a choice between attacking a defended city and an undefended worker next to that city, they always go for the worker. Same with settlers, scouts and other units without a defensive value.
  
  
• Four veteran Spearmen fortified behind walls are usually enough to hold off 24 Barbarian horsemen at Regent level. Afterwards, it is usual for all the spearmen to become Elite because battlefield promotions against barbarians appear to be more common. If you want a lot of Elite defensive units, sending them all to the city that is being attacked by barbarians can net you five or six fairly easily.
  
  
• You can slow the barbarians down and reduce their numbers if you can interpose a unit between the barbarian horde and their target city. A single fortified Swordsmen can take out three or four Horsemen before he dies, and each dead barbarian is one that won't be attacking your city. Even a Horseman can take out a couple. The last few barbarians are typically the ones that deal the most damage, and if they are killed, your city will be a lot safer.

Last edited by star mouse on 21-02-2002 at 04:33

	05-03-2002 13:29									#21
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Testing with the "multi-cheat" showed that barbarian uprisings occur at all barbarian encampments at the same time! I played two different games, and both times did all remaining barb encampments spawn a barbarian horde the same turn. So it does not seem to matter if the camp was there for 20 turns or just one.

I played on a small map and a standard map, and there was 2 on the small map and 3 on the standard map active at the time the barb uprising occured.

	06-03-2002 02:40									#22
	Aieeeeee..... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

...that about sums it up.

Personally, I think "Raging hordes" is the "aieeee..." setting. Also the "getitoffgetitoffoh-gosh-it-hurts" setting.

	07-03-2002 00:44									#23
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If you play a game with "roaming barb", only 8 barb horsies will show on an uprising episode. Is there any advantage of playing a game at a raging barb setting?.

	07-03-2002 07:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by ledj If you play a game with "roaming barb", only 8 barb horsies will show on an uprising episode. Is there any advantage of playing a game at a raging barb setting?.

If you like pain, yes.