28-01-2002 17:16									#1
	Cornering Energy Market Support Apolyton

I cornered the market for the first time with SMAX and I think I found a bug here. It only cost me a little over 4000 and that seems way too low - I reloaded a save from a few turns earlier and it wanted more, 8000 - but that was earlier. I thought the value was based on the amount needed to subvert all bases. I remember when playing SMAC that the value was usually in the tens of thousands. The total population in the game at the time was about 400.

	28-01-2002 18:05									#2
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hmm, usually with SMAX I get quoted a figure in the 100s of thousands - how many enemy bases did you have in your game (the price is related to this)?

	28-01-2002 19:51									#3
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I was playing Morgan and had only captured something like 7 enemy bases. Maybe the requirement was less because I was ahead in tech? When I tried to mind control a base around the same time it wanted 1000 just for that one base - I have no idea why the requirement was so low and it's odd that the price went DOWN over time. Maybe there were a ton of bases that had drone riots at the time? I did not have the HSA SP at the time. Is the value so high that it's rolling over?

	28-01-2002 21:48									#4
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Hard to say really. Its hard to differentiate between a design feature and bug sometimes.

	28-01-2002 22:01									#5
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actually now i think cornering energy market is possible, espeically when you build lots and lots of +1 energy thingy

and evenutally you can just buy production for +1 energy thingy.

	28-01-2002 22:04									#6
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What's a "+1 Energy Thingy"?

	28-01-2002 23:11									#7
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He means having a +2 Economy rating, which gives you +1 energy per worked square.

	29-01-2002 02:47									#8
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Fitz it could be +2 econ or...


Maybe Merchant Exchange (but thats only one thingy)


or...

Since he refer to lots of +1 energy thingy's he is probably refering to one or both of the following:

Thermocline Transducers or Energy Sats.


Cheerfully,

Og's translation service

Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 29-01-2002 at 03:03

	29-01-2002 03:56									#9
	Got spare money?

None of this explains why it only cost me a mere 4000 to corner the energy martket. Transcend, normal size world. World pop of 400-500...

	29-01-2002 04:32									#10
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I have a save, I am Morgan:

Year: 2366
Miriam 127 votes, 68 treasury - vendetta
Governor Sven 192 votes, 466 treasury - treaty
Zak 112 votes (with Empath Guild), unknown treasury - treaty
Dawn 20 votes, 20 treasury - submissive
Morgan 204 votes, 3896 treasury

Commerce Rating: 9; Demo/Free Market/Wealth

Transcend, Normal Size

5 Orbital Power Transmitters - 31 probe teams
Planetary Energy Grid
Planetary Transit System

Cost to mind control Dry Dock (pop 11) is 3570
Morgan has captured 3 Cult, 2 Pirate, 1 Believer Base

COST TO CORNER THE WORLD MARKET: 3952!

Maybe the Planetary Energy Grid (which is new with SMAX) has a large effect on the COST needed? Maybe the University's Hunter Seeker Algorithm is screwing things up?

I did some more testing, if I give away one of my pop 12 bases the COST increases by 20 or so. If I give the base to my submissive the COST does not go up. If I declare Vendetta against a faction the COST goes up by 500 to 1000.

	29-01-2002 05:46									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Have you been playing around with your txt files, you naughty boy? Seriously, I don't know if there is a swithc in the txt files, but if have been moding them, you should double check what you've done. That's the only thing that makes sense for me.

Thanks Ogie. I guess your translation service is gives far superior quality of service compared to mine.

	29-01-2002 05:52									#12
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Nope, no mods; don't even know where to look for the files. How about the year? Is that earlier than normal - maybe there's a year modifier?

	29-01-2002 09:39									#13
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I believe your commerce rating has a large effect on the total cost. Had you discovered a 'commerce tech' between the first, more expensive, attempt and the second? That could explain the direction of change in cost.

After three years, I STILL don't know how the cost is actually determined.

	29-01-2002 11:17									#14
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I only have SMAC and i used to corner the market all the time as Morgan a few things i have 'sorta' tested

-the more +Economy you have the cheaper it is
-the more built up bases there is the more exspensive it is (that includes other factions bases of course)
-the weaker the economic might of opposing factions the cheaper it is
-the amount of credits opposing factions have varies it (although since AI factions rarely have any this hardly comes into effect)
- fewer factions left alive have a large effect on the cheapness

The most i have ever seen an economic victory was 80k cost (i had 200k in treasury =D dont ask~) cheapest ive seen is 6k

Those arent hard boiled facts just things ive noticed,i havent come across any formula for ecnomic victory in any of the .txt's

	30-01-2002 07:28									#15
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no, i meant by +1 thingy is the satellite thingy. haha sorry, sometimes i have no access to the game nor the manual when i write messages.

	30-01-2002 17:26									#16
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Ah yes, I had 5 and the AI had 0 Orbital Power Transmitters. Maybe it has an effect. Can I destroy my own satellites to see if it increases the Cornering Cost?

	30-01-2002 18:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose I believe your commerce rating has a large effect on the total cost. Had you discovered a 'commerce tech' between the first, more expensive, attempt and the second? That could explain the direction of change in cost. After three years, I STILL don't know how the cost is actually determined.

M O N G O O S E !!!

Is that you!?!?!?!
Resurfaced after... 18 months you disappeared from the SMAC community!
We have still the Hunchbacks with Knives pbem waiting on you an Vel!

: insert jubilating smiley here :

hope you're now thriving with your new home, new job, new relations, functioning & stable phone connection, and your pack of dogs!

	30-01-2002 20:00									#18
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The cost to to corner the energy market is proportional to the sum of the dominance values of the other factions. If they grow weaker the cost is reduced. I have noted a serios bug for this, but it should not have afected your game. The dominence value have a mximun level and rolls over when a faction reaches around 200 to 400 bases (depending on other factors that go into it. Normaly this will only be the human player in a single player game. When it rolls over the cost for the AI to corner the market will drops from hundres of thousand to a few credits and then start climbing again. If you are plaaning a hughe empire for some reason or experiment in sp play, you must disable economic victory. In you case someting must have change the dominence value for the other faction, or perhaps some other part of the algorithim that calculates it broke.

	30-01-2002 21:09									#19
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What if the difference in commerce value has a large effect? How can I determine the other factions' commerce value? In scenario mode?

	31-01-2002 02:20									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

you only had 5 Orbital Power Transmitters? Usually when I have ability to build Transmitters, I build until I reach 25 at least. I use 3 bases to build them and 'buy' production each turn. This give me a lot of energy credits and i can simply buy more stuff even as the Hives.

I used to think the +1 mineral satllite thingy (<--hahah don't know the name) is better, until I tried out I loved Transmitters much more.

	31-01-2002 02:31									#21
	Got spare money?

I had other things to build and was worried about those flares that destroy all your satellites. Didn't want to make to much of an investment.

	31-01-2002 04:53									#22
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MoSe,

Maybe this is the elusive North American Mongoose. They are known to hibernate for extended periods of time...

Sure has been a long winter, buddy. Drop me a line. iamjamiam@yahoo.com

	31-01-2002 05:45									#23
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I hardly pay attention to randon events, and i have not see flare event.

well I recommend to try out these satllites. You may discover stuff.