06-02-2002 07:08									#31
	Answers Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well I dont know what Rosacrux wants either, I'm just adding my $0.02 as well
If anyone else who (like me) reads this thread to get ideas for thier own campaign, then my ideas might help them out.

In answer to some of your questions:

Basically I designed my Civ2 scenario for a world builder for my roleplayers, I had each of them play a race and so this way each had thier own agendas, rather than me creating the entire map myself and having bais.
So some of the techs were designed to give me an idea of what sort of race they were, for roleplay, and other techs are designed to slow down certain avenues of play so players cant rush advances and get major advantages over other players.
I'm looking forward to creating my scenario in civ 3, Finally Ideas I had for civ2 but could never achieve due to game restrictions, I can now put into play.

Ok. So
Q. What is the Stockade?

A. The stockade is a rudimentary wooden (or other material) wall or barrackade against outside intruders, I wanted to add 'city walls' to this advance but since there is no other wall type unit in civ 2, I left it, I later developed a troop that was a wooden palisade that had a movement of 0 and a defence of 3, but due to the restriction of troops for the game, I gave that a flick too.

Q. What does The Warrior represent?

The warrior represents a level of civilization where the community understand the need for defences. these troops were able to train in the arts of combat, without the need to tend to thier fields or other proffession. until this advance people defended themselves when the need aroze, but were common farmers, herders or gatherers
Q. What is Geriachy?

Geriarchy is a system whereby the Elders of the Tribe/community choose what is to be done, older=wiser=governing body, Since geriarchy has a resistance to change I used communism and lowered the max tax/science rates

Q. What is Flaxen ?

Flaxen is a early cloth, I think its an earlier version of hemp? someone will tell me right/wrong, but my resaecrh was that it was one of the earliest cloths, and was developed from the use of refining basket weaving. It later led to the discovery of Linen

Hopefully this answers your Q's

	06-02-2002 08:26									#32
	Page 2 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok sorry if anything here is confusing, ask and I'll explain

As per Last time:
Advance/Tech: Req 1. & Req 2. unit/building/wonder (explaination is req)
oh and I'm using the old Attack/Defence/Movemnt for troops If I remember them....

Oh and in crimson I'll add if its probably too advanced for an ancient game scenario, I might be wrong, its up to the final designers, just my 2 cents
Harpoon: tool age/the spear fishing harbour(+1 food from ocean)
Mathematics: Elders & Currency
Alphabet: Elders
Writing: Alphabet diplomat
Astronomy: Mathematics & Mysticism
Masonry: Stone working & Wood workingumm, buildings I cant remeber the them all
Ringmail: Leather & Currency
Smithing: Masonry & Ringmail
Basic Boat: Wood workingcanoe 0/1/1
Sail Boat: basic boat & flaxen sailboat 0/2/2
Sea Faring: sail boat & astronomy the galley
Map Making: Writing & astronomy
Navigation: Map Making & Seafaring Caraval - medi-eval!
The Blalde: tool age & Bronze

Religeon: Astronomy & Heirarchy
Code of Laws: Writing & Religeon
Iron Working: Smithing & Code of Laws
Code of Conduct: Religeon & Code of Laws
You may wonder why code of conduct requires religeon since code of laws also requires it, hence making the requirement obsolete, Hey, you may have noticed similar things all through the list, Well the ammount of times someone would pick up one of the techs from a goody hut, It spolied game play when characters had Knights running around without the three basics of code of conduct, code of honor, code of chivalry, just isn't right.
Horticulture: Iron working & Farming farmland (terrain upgrade)
Code of Honor: Code of conduct - medi-eval!
Feudalism: Code of conduct & Horticulture - medi-eval!

I dislike that feudalism is a tech, since it only came about as a result of the people being so poor from the taxes to fund the crusades, they sold themselves to a lord as a vassal, and after enough time of this happening, it became the normal.
Code of Chivalry: Feaudalism & LongswordKings Champion, 6/3/2 - medi-eval!
Spys: the Blade & Literacy spys
Shortsword: the Blade & The Warrior mercanary
Warfare: Code of Laws & Shortsword soldiers
Longsword: Steel & Warfare longswordsman - medi-eval!

Druidism: Horticulture & Code of Conductdruid (engineer)
Alchemy: Druidism
Deitism: Religeon & Geriarchy Deitism(gov)
Deitism is the basis of a religeon or deity ruling the government, I used Fanatacism as the base and modified the scienc/tax maxs.
Pikemen: Iron Working & Phalanx pikemen 2/6/1
Halberdiers: Pikemen & Feudalism halberdiers 2/7/1 - medi-eval!

I think thats enough for now, I'm getting up into the medieval times, and I dont know if thats what you want,

	06-02-2002 08:59									#33
	Dont stress Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I Found my old rules.txt I'll add it here so you can see the complete list with units, land etc etc

Attachment: rules.txt
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	06-02-2002 10:13									#34
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I considered starting a thread like this, but realized that with the "ages of mankind" concept, the game was good enough to do certain scenarios (like the Second Peloppenesian War scenario I'm planning) without considerable alteration. The problem of the old Discovery scenario (can quickly research Electricity, thus getting Destroyers, before ever getting Ironclads) doesn't happen, since you need to research all the prereqs before you can advance an age. Thus, for the purposes of building most scenarios, there's really no need to alter the tech tree or anything, unless you really want to have a feel of continual advancement, rather than simply worrying about city placement and troop movements.

But, were I to do a modpack of this sort (and I will add my "science" tech tree at the bottom of this), I would start it in the stone age. I believe that even such concepts as irrigation, mining, and roads can be denied a starting player this time around (I don't remember what it was that caused me to believe this, so I could be *very* wrong), thus even these could be researched.

Included among wonders would be such things as Stonehenge, Great Cave Paintings, etc. in the Stone Age. Stonehenge would obviously have something to do with either happiness, or, if we can find mechanics to tweak in a balanced manner, food production (maybe give the Pyramids some other function?)

Included among the Civs would be such speculatory civs as what I call the Proto-Europeans, that is, whomever it was that got displaced by the Celts, whomever it was that built the Great Stone Circles.

It would go until around the fall of Rome, as at this point, Europe is well into the Dark Ages, well on it's way to the Middle Ages, which should be avoided in an "ancient" mod. If Knights start showing up on the battlefiled, we know we've gone too far.

Now for the science progression. I put considerable research into this a few years ago, back when I was planning for a Civ2 mod. Unfortunately, much of the tech tree was designed to account for Civ2's "single tree" style, and I am having difficulty adapting it for the "ages of man" style of game.

Wow. I just realized I have almost nothing to contribute to this, other than this:

I prefer Phonecians to Carthagenians. Carthage could be a city name for the Phonecians, and obviously, after Tyre was captured by - I believe it was the Assyrians, Carthage became the new capital. But the Phonecians were important through much of ancient history, and Carthage's role is simply continuous from the Phonecian role after the fall of Tyre. The Phonecians developed what we call the "Alphabet," among other things. All Carthage did, that most people remember at any rate, was challenge Rome for rulership of the Western Med. I'm sure Carthage did a great deal more, but the simple fact that Phonecia developed The Alphabet should probably weigh heaviest.

	06-02-2002 20:40									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Guys,

I wrote earlier that early sails were made of hemp. WRONG. They were made of linen or other materials. Hamp was needed for the ropes...

So the strat. res. needed for ships could be linen? Available with Flaxen?

	07-02-2002 04:38									#36
	Re: The Ancient Times mod - Help Wanted Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Rosacrux More suggestions: Illyrians, Thracians, Ionian Greeks, Italian Greeks, Medes, Parthians, Macedonian Greeks, Molloses - there are hundreds of civs we could use.

ahem, ahem - Macedonian GREEKS??? say what now? sorry, that is insulting... the Macedonians were MACEDONIANS. MACEODONIANS. MACEDONIANS.

Second, Etruscans = Romans, Dorians = Greeks

So both an Etruscan and a Roman civ would be inaccurate.

Also, I am making a very similar mod except it deals with Alex the great's conquest strictly. Good luck!

	07-02-2002 05:40									#37
	Re: Re: The Ancient Times mod - Help Wanted Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by exsanguination ahem, ahem - Macedonian GREEKS??? say what now? sorry, that is insulting... the Macedonians were MACEDONIANS. MACEODONIANS. MACEDONIANS. Second, Etruscans = Romans

1. This has been discussed at length. Though I don't see the need for the "-grreks" suffix, it isn't wrong either.

2. Where the hell do you have this from? That's so ...err... wrong. Case closed.

	08-02-2002 01:44									#38
	Re: Re: Re: The Ancient Times mod - Help Wanted Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III 1. This has been discussed at length. Though I don't see the need for the "-grreks" suffix, it isn't wrong either. 2. Where the hell do you have this from? That's so ...err... wrong. Case closed.

1) sorry, I felt like saying that.

2) WHAT?

	08-02-2002 01:53									#39
	Remove this text

Etruscan religion, arts, military, social classes etc. are very different from roman. Not to speak of the language which had NOTHING to do with latin. Saying Etruscans are romans is like saying Sumerians are Assyrians, no even less, it's like saying Sumerians are Persians

	08-02-2002 03:44									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

considering Romulus and his twin were both Etruscans, I don't know what to say... (translation: Romans are DIRECT DESCENDANTS of the Etruscans.)

	08-02-2002 04:41									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Romulus and Remus were mythological figures, it's quite possible they never existed... and even then, they were not Etruscan but a gift from the god Mars to Rhea Silvia (who was a Trojan-Latin hybrid).

Looking at real history, Rome seems to have been founded by Latin and Sabellian tribes, as remembered in the 'Rape of the Sabines'. This hypothesis is supported by archeological (and linguistical) evidence:

"The presence of two different cultures --inhumation/the Sabines, cremation/the Latins-- is attested by the presence in archaeological finds of both types of burials on the Palatine, dwelling of the Latins, and the Aventine, dwelling of the Sabines. Conversely, no Etruscan tomb has been found in Rome."

Although the Etruscans were important in the early history of Rome (until they mysteriously disappeared), the Romans were definitely not Etruscans.

	08-02-2002 06:51									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Saying the Romans were direct descendents of the Etruscans is like saying the Mexicans are the direct descendents of the Spanish. Yes, very likely, a few were (as a minority of Mexicans are of direct Spanish descent). But the Etruscans (who appeared to be of eastern origin, due to cultural similarities) ruled over an indiginous, Latin population (probably much the same way the Phonecian people of Carthage were able to dominate their own local population).

Rome was an important city in the Etruscan domain, mainly because it grew because of all the roads that passed through; it was a major waypoint, even before the Republic was declared.

And, of corse, legend has it that the local Etruscan overlord raped a very important woman (a daughter of a local aristocrat, or something like that), thus sparking the revolt that would result in the foundation of the "res publica." If it was that easy, the Etruscans were probably on the decline, anyway, perhaps assimilating into the local population, though that's pure speculation, on my part.