29-01-2002 05:58									#1
	SimGolf: I eat my words ... it's FUN! Increase Your PM Length

When I'm wrong, I admit it. From the very first announcement of SimGolf until yesterday when I got a crack at the game, I thought Sid was nuts to take so little part in Civ3 to go off and do a Sim Golf thing. Two things I hate:

Sim-anything and
Golf!

Lord. Just seeing the two words put together in SimGolf gave me stomach pains. I mean, this is Sid!

So since it is Sid, I gave it a try. Any other designer I would have ignored. As it turns out, the game has tons of character and just an overall sense that Sid really enjoyed making the game. From the perfectly chosen elevator-like music and splash screens to the amazingly intuitive interface ... fun!

And the graphics are quite nice. Tiny waves roll up the shore. Trees don't just get pasted in when you place them: They start bare and quickly pop in leaves. Various wildlife doesn't just start on your course: They fall out of the sky like tiny bombs when you create the right conditions.

Most importantly, the gameplay makes sense: You need to vary your hole designs otherwise golfers get bored. The various goodies that you can put on the course, things like benches and snackshops, all make sense and correlate well in the game world. Even the golfers react intelligently to the hole they are about to play: "Should I play this safe or try to shoot over the rocks?" -- things you wouldn't expect the comp to realize just from the design of the hole.

In other words, some massive attention to detail went into this thing. Add to it that you have your own golf-avatar that occasionally gets challenged to play on the very course that you designed (surprisingly, the fact that you don't control his putting or swing in any important way -- you just select the type of shot -- actually adds to the ease and fun of play, in pure Sid style), well, it's brilliant, actually.

Keep in mind that I doubt I'll ever consider the game revolutionary or anything, but I do have to say this: Sid took the absolute best of the Sim and golf ideas and created something so polished and so fun that after many years you can finally see what Sid can do when he enjoys his subject material.

Bravo, Sid! Honestly.

	29-01-2002 06:07									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Too bad he'll never see a dime from you though huh software pirate?

	29-01-2002 06:18									#3
	Put an end to popups!

I always buy games that deserve my money. SimGolf is one such game. And I have no idea where the hell you get this pirate garbage from ... oh, I forget, you're the guy who doesn't think it's possible to buy 2 games a month.

Well, here's some news: This is a GAMING forum visited by GAMERS. Get a clue.

	29-01-2002 06:25									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

By the way, here's a hot link to get some free SimGolf action. I don't normally reveal my sources, but for you, baby: The Link.

	29-01-2002 07:02									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

MOHonor: Where did you go? Are you busy pirating the demo, like I did? LOL!

	29-01-2002 07:50									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

You sure enjoy talking, don't you?

	29-01-2002 07:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

On a public forum dedicated to gaming? Sure. Hey, have you pirated the demo yet, Osweld? Or are you too busy trolling?

	29-01-2002 08:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You know I could just sit here and continue to watch you freak out but I wanted to see just how stupid you were and did a search for you and for warez. Viola.


yin26
Emperor
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.

Apr 1999

09-01-2002 04:34



Yep, and Warez is buyer's insurance. All I can say is that if a company conditions me to treat them like thieves, I will.


__________________
Yin, you're amazing. Nine times out of ten, you're a complete *******. Yet, sometimes you say(err... type) something insightful enough to prove again your worth to the community. I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you. -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001


My conclusion is that you're pretty stupid.

	29-01-2002 09:43									#9
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Ooooh, Big Man! LOL! My stance on Warez has been pretty clear. I even posted a thread asking people not to play pirated copies of Civ3 and instead simply play a friend's copy first or just not play at all.

The fact is, despite the fact that Warez *IS* an insurance option in this day and age, I so far haven't used it myself. I don't even have MP3s. Then again, when a company like Infogrames sues gamers for modding the game instead of working out a solution, I have no sympathy for them when their games get downloaded illegally.

The fact remains that you seeminly got jealous or psycho (or both?) when you saw the list of games I played in 2001. What's wrong? Can't you afford that many?

Well, I certainly can. I will certainly continue to buy many games and talk about them.

Barring that, your stalking and totally unfounded crap never ceases to amaze me. Consider yourself part of an elite group:

The Yin Groupie!

Congratulations! I can't wait for your next love letter.

By the way, as with most people who have no leg to stand on and must, therefore, skew the truth anyway they can, Mr. Dishonor here failed to give you the context of my quote. Here was the post to which I was replying:

quote: It's just marketing, plain and simple. Video games and other software companies are almost forced to take this approach to make money. It's not like Coke... "Buy our product, the same one we've been selling for years," it's "this is the hottest new title and it renders all past titles obsolete." Honestly, would you buy something that says on the box: "This game will have a sequel out in four months that will render this product unnecessary for you to own?"

After which I say, essentially, Warez can be a great equalizer when companies take such an attitude. I stand by that now, though I would rather boycott such companies than waste time playing their games.

Gee, doesn't it suck when life isn't so black and white, Dishonor? It's o.k. Give yourself time to grow up a bit. I'll wait. LOL!

	29-01-2002 10:45									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I don't even have MP3s

What do you have got against MP3?

After all, it's just a way to compress music. It's good for us geeks who need to stare at a computer all day. We can just burn all our favourite songs on one CD for the whole day.

It doesn't have to be illegal, you know.

	29-01-2002 10:51									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

"Illegal" MP3s!

	29-01-2002 11:03									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Glad to hear it .

So is Sid still a Game God, Yin?

	29-01-2002 11:37									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Gotta say, I'm pretty impressed. Granted, this is not a serious hack'n'slash or some heart-pumping FPS, but it beats the hell out of Tetris, and I mean that in the best way. Tetris was one of those games that you'd fire up when you didn't want to do anything else but relax. I get those same feelings with SimGolf, and it really brings to light Sid's design philosophy of substituting complexity for a greater sense of fun.

I suppose, also, if all the 'character' were taken out of the game it would be a lot more dull, but it's just full of nice little details. I look forward to seeing how long I keep it on my computer. Perhaps it's destined to stay as a break between other games?

I should also say that Will Wright's influence is so clear, and the Maxis team of artist Sid used really did a bang-up job.

	29-01-2002 11:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

So how does it feel to be a demo pirate ?

	29-01-2002 12:11									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I feel so bad that I'm thinking of cancelling my order on chips and bits. That'll show me!

	29-01-2002 14:08									#16
	Re: SimGolf: I eat my words ... it's FUN! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Bravo, Sid! Honestly.

*Crosses off another sign of the apocalypse*

	29-01-2002 16:01									#17
	Tired of ads?

LOL - once more you got beaten by your own words.
Good thinbg is that you at least admit it.

So you liked the demo. Interesting.
Sure it's a nice game with many good details.
Somhow it just didn't catch my imagination.
(Or maybe I should have studied it harder - player's thinking??)

Have you already played the full version then?
(Would like to hear final judgement - it just might change after some time like in Civ3)

	29-01-2002 16:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

ravagon: LOL! Well, I thought Gettysburg was genius, too.

Jeje: Hi there, friend. I remember you playing the demo quite a while ago. I don't know why I only waited until now to play. The fact that you can only build 3 holes is really limiting, but based on what I saw, I ordered it. Should come early next week.

I do wonder how much replayability it will have, of course. I worry that once I 'figure it all out,' it won't pull me back in. And I don't know for sure, but will there be a random map option? If there's no random map, it could get dull pretty fast.

That said, I was just so impressed with the overall feel of the thing that I placed the order. I'll tell ya how the full version looks next week.

P.S.: I do only seem able to play for short periods at a time. They are enjoyable periods, but rather short. Is that good or bad, Jeje, and did you get the same feeling?

Last edited by yin26 on 29-01-2002 at 18:10

	29-01-2002 20:03									#19
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I should also say that Will Wright's influence is so clear, and the Maxis team of artist Sid used really did a bang-up job.

Just FYI - All art in the game was created by Firaxis artists.

	29-01-2002 23:52									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well, then: Fantastic work!

	30-01-2002 00:38									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just DLed the demo! GOD, Yin, you are right! I lost track of time, and went to sleep an hour later than I planned .

Very fun... I liked it... the 3 hole limit gives you something to shoot for . And I love playing your own golfer. It sounded cheezy when I first heard of it, but it absolutely makes the game!

	30-01-2002 05:02									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You know, if the full version adds some significant challenges and even more of the same good stuff, I can see really liking the game long-term. It does seem a bit easy so far, but that's probably because I haven't tried the hard settings just yet.

Anyway, sorry if I in any way helped you lose some sleep!

	30-01-2002 17:02									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

All this talk and I might just have to go get the demo myself.

Though, I am not a golf fan in the least (was a caddy for a while though).

	30-01-2002 21:05									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

I downloaded the demo too, yesterday, and it sure is a fun game. I actually didn't play it yet myself (only saw my sister playing it) but it sure looks good and fun. Those comments the golfers make are just hilarious! (although I'm afraid they'll get kinda repetitive).
But then again, I always thought SimGolf might be worth a shot, since I do quite like both golf and sim games.

	30-01-2002 22:23									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

They do get repetitive, everything gets repetitive. There isn't a great more to do once you have made a single golf course, all that's left is different settings (four sets) and landscapes... if that's enough to keep you entertained, then you'll like it, if it's not, you won't.

I've also noticed that there are bugs or just bizzare 'physics' involved in the actual golphing part of it, not to mention that you don't really get to control much... just pick 1 of four swing types, and set where you want it to go.

Another thing that bugs me is that there are sometimes graphic gliches similiar to the ones in RollerCoasterTycoon, where slopes become transparent or just otherwise gliched.

Finally, I've only played on moderate difficulty... but I've never had any challange what-so-ever, merely delays while waiting for more money (Actually, I suppose that is the only real challance in most sim games...).

	30-01-2002 23:39									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Aha, someone else takes up the SimGolf issue! I tried to start a poll on the Civ 3 General board days ago. I wanted to see how many would eat their words and admit the demo was actually interesting. Unfortunately it got whisked off to Apolyton Community to gather cobwebs before more than a handful could own up. There was a definite swing toward grudging acceptance of the game though.

I have been finding it great fun although one or two of the course design attributes are quirky. Why does one style of fairway grow weeds and not the other, for example? Playing rounds or golf to improve your player stats definitely passes the time well when you are waiting for more cash to clock up in the kitty. Planning the course hole by hole is a novel approach, but not knowing which land you will get to expand into makes planning a whole interconnecting 18 holes very tricky. I hope the players don't mind long walks.

If I had to pick fault with anything, it would be Sid's belief that Stonehenge is in Wales. Next time I visit the States I must go see where President Bush lives in Graceland

I've not seen any graphic glitches, so that may be card specific and no doubt will be addressed in the first patch if it isn't squashed already. The challenge factor may not come through too well in the demo, but you have to get your course to a certain standard in order to allow your player to improve. Even if you keep earning modest cash returns you may never get to compete in the big tournaments if your course design isn't absolutely perfect at the higher difficulty. It was certainly much easier to hit 225 happiness on easy difficulty than moderate.

	31-01-2002 00:22									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

For the record, I'm not playing the demo, I'm playing the full version.

	31-01-2002 02:31									#28
	Put an end to popups!

If there's one thing I wish this game had, it's anti-aircraft guns so I can shoot down that annoying firaxis blimp that's always obscuring my view.

I still enjoy making courses though... there is quite alot of interesting things you can do, I imagine that after a while it'll become rather simple and run of the mill, though.

I'll give it a try on the hardest difficulty later, and see if it's more of a challange.


I don't know if the demo allows you to do this, but if you want to do a championship on my courses, I'll include them. Scorpion Cove is the first course I made, and Country Kaincide is the second. (provided I zipped the right files, they go in the /themes/championship directory)

Attachment: courses.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	31-01-2002 03:21									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It doesn´t surprise me in the least to hear that SimGolf is interesting. But it´s the reason why CivIII is so unsatisfactory. Firaxis doesn´t have enough talent to make 2 good games at the same time. So SimGolf got the best, and CivIII got the rest...

	31-01-2002 06:16									#30
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Here's the Gamespot Review. Seems pretty fair to me so far, though that tournament crash bug has already a few people pretty pissed off. If it gets a lot of fan support as with the Sims, it could really grow into something to keep around a while.