29-01-2002 07:07									#1
	Lost Secrets - Turn tracking Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Welcome to Lost Secrets

The players in this game are (in turn order):

vitamin j - Data Angels vitaminj31@hotmail.com
Darsnan - Gaians dnandal@twcny.rr.com
Psybermagus - Cyborgs psybermagus2323@hotmail.com or psybermagus@earthlink.net
Qantaga - Morgan Qantaga@aol.com
Paul - University paulvdbelt@hetnet.nl

There are no AI factions.

SITS - CMN sits07@yahoo.co.uk

This game has no Secret Projects and there are no pods at all (even though I selected pods at landing sites )

All victory conditions allowed except for Co-operation.

There are rumours about an Island that has all the riches of Planet for those that are brave enough to reach for it, for many have died trying...

Rules

Rules:

• Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build EG
• Retro-engineering - OK, except for using the probe rover chassis before discovering Doc. Mobility
• SE switches "quickies" forbidden - (obviously you can experiment to see what effect various SE choices have, but cannot change, play moves, then change back in the same turn)
• Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
• Stockpiling in Qs anytime - OK
• Crawlers Upgrade anytime - OK
• Probe actions: Must choose vendetta option when probing other players, rebuke if a pactmate (OK to probe teammate at any time)
• Using the AI - Cannot use the AI to bribe on council votes nor to demand withdrawal of units
• Cannot use the right click feature for multiple drop moves to extend range (ie limited to 8 tiles unless owning the Space Elevator SP)
• Cannot use the 'set waypoint' feature for automatic worm hunting/lifecycle enhancements
• Must 'Accept' or 'Decline' an offered Pact or Treaty that the other player has indicated 'Accepted' before exiting the diplo box and playing the turn (i.e. no accepting pending treaties/pacts *after* declaring vendetta in the same turn )
• Cannot use the F4 feature (or the bases feature of the F2 screen) to change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists


These have been suggested but they as of yet haven't been agreed by all. I suggest people post here if the rules are OK.

I would appreciate it if Paul can CC me the turn every 10 years so I can keep an eye on it and I also want to write a running commentary of what is going on in the game in this thread (without giving anything away!)

Turn 2102 has been sent to vitamin j along with passwords to individuals. There might be a possibility that we start again as I've chosen the starting tech for Paul and that might not be to his liking. I will let you know.

SITS

Last edited by SITS on 31-01-2002 at 19:18

	29-01-2002 08:47									#2
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SITS, thanks again for creating the game for us. We are very grateful. You made me so jealous that I have been playing around in the scenario editor all day.

I know it takes a lot of time and hard work to set one of these games up, so thanks a lot.

I would be willing to bet that you selected the right tech for Paul, but no worries if he would like to make a clean start.

As for the rules, I think we have agreed on all of the rules you posted, with the exception of this one:

"Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field"

Personally, I have no problem either way with this rule, as long as we agree up front.

The problem with this one is that everyone in the game must be comfortable with it, because it could be a gamebreaker if not everyone is knowledgeable of its power and using it. If given a choice, I would rather us not have the ability to upgrade a unit and move it on the same turn (thus the rule to only use the DW at the end of the turn laid out in the 'Poly tournaments). As Flubber posted in another thread, imagine sidling up to a group of 1-1-1 Scout Patrols and the next turn, not only are they suddenly 8-1-1, but they also have the ability to immediately strike. However, if the majority of the players want DW freedom, then I will happily go along.

vitamin j, I noticed you were a little unsure of the Council notification in the other thread, but that is pretty standard MP etiquette these days. Since the council votes pop up at the very start of the turn, it just gives everyone else a fair chance to think things over before they open their turn. Obviously, the person who called the elections had ample time to think it over before calling the election, so it is just a common courtesy.

Good luck to everyone. This should be fun.

	29-01-2002 09:02									#3
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Oh, and sorry to get so long-winded, but just a couple of additional items:

1. Nice choice on naming the game Lost Secrets.

2. I am pretty sure that we agreed to be on our honor to not even place a Secret Project in the build queues. The only two secret projects that you can even start working on would be the Voice and the Ascent. So, if that is not agreed by the majority, we need to hash that out now since it is at the core of the idea of this game.

	29-01-2002 09:09									#4
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There are no SP's in this game except for Voice and Ascent.

And thank you for your comments!

	29-01-2002 20:10									#5
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quote: Originally posted by SITS There are no SP's in this game except for Voice and Ascent.

Nice! I never even knew you could turn off or activate only certain projects. Thanks for setting it up this way. Also, many thanks to Googlie and his vast SMACX knowledge.

	29-01-2002 21:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Qantaga Nice! I never even knew you could turn off or activate only certain projects. Thanks for setting it up this way. Also, many thanks to Googlie and his vast SMACX knowledge.

I assure you it is thanks to Googlie's vast SMACX knowledge, rather than mine!

	29-01-2002 21:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Qantaga "Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field" Personally, I have no problem either way with this rule, as long as we agree up front. The problem with this one is that everyone in the game must be comfortable with it, because it could be a gamebreaker if not everyone is knowledgeable of its power and using it. If given a choice, I would rather us not have the ability to upgrade a unit and move it on the same turn (thus the rule to only use the DW at the end of the turn laid out in the 'Poly tournaments). As Flubber posted in another thread, imagine sidling up to a group of 1-1-1 Scout Patrols and the next turn, not only are they suddenly 8-1-1, but they also have the ability to immediately strike. However, if the majority of the players want DW freedom, then I will happily go along.

There are two limiting factors that militate against these DW type of upgrades:

You can't select a single unit to upgrade, so you must have enough energy credits in hand to en-masse upgrade, even for units of that type that will not be facing combat (but of course, if you had a single, obsolete whatsit lying around and upgraded to a neutronium armored drop troop you could then drop that into the defenders slot - assuming movement limitations were met.

You revert all units back to the basic morale level of green when you design-workshop upgrade.

Battlefield upgrades retain their morale (but of course lose their turn)

But Q is right - it can be somewhat of a gamebreaker. In a recent one I maneged to destroy an enemy's fully built Ascent by mass upgrading of drop nervegas scouts, and then using captured bases facilities (sold) to further upgrade miscellaneous units to drop shard blink units that stormed his Ascent Base

But I couldn't have done it if he hadn't left eight bases undefended as he pulled defenders to his Ascent base - so I'm not sure how much of a "gamebreaker" it really could be

Have fun (and thanks for the compliment, SITS, but the work is all yours - I just pointed to menu items

Googlie

	30-01-2002 07:52									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hmmm... Now that this game has its hooks in me, I am a little curious where it might be. I noticed that vitamin j posted a couple of other game turns earlier today, but no mention of this one.

SITS, perhaps a resend to vitamin j might be in order?

	30-01-2002 10:34									#9
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Turn resent - I think the password got lost in all the text I sent him....

	30-01-2002 19:57									#10
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I realize everyone is chomping at the bit. I've emailed SITS about the game, and he has sent me the turn AGAIN. And now I've received an email from Paul saying essentially "hurry up"! But there is one problem... WHAT IS MY F***ING PASSWORD!

There was no text in either email I received from SITS. So if you would be so kind, sir, please try again or let's try something else. I don't understand why I would not receive text in your emails... Perhaps Googlie could send it to me, as I know I've received text from him.

If my password is the same as it is in AXT055 and 056, Googlie could verify that with a "yes" in this thread.

So, sorry for the delay. I would like to get started myself.

	30-01-2002 20:08									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've resent the password again to you, making sure the email is in plain text rather than html. I'll be online for a little while so email me back if it doesn't work. Cheers!

	30-01-2002 20:09									#12
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I've resent the password again to you, making sure the email is in plain text rather than html. I'll be online for a little while so email me back if it doesn't work. Cheers!

PS The password is different from whatever Googlie has given you...

	30-01-2002 21:10									#13
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Vitamin j now has his password...

	30-01-2002 22:18									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And 2102 has been sent to Darsnan.

I'd just like to say I was disappointed that I did not start the game with a probe team. It's been a while since I played the Angels, but I'm pretty sure that is one of their faction advantages.
I can deal with it, but I can't help but wonder if the Gaians started with a mind worm. And we know the Uni got their free tech.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that a +4 probe rating was forbidden for some reason. I was never clear on why this is, and it is particularly applicable to the Angels as they can run fundamentalism. And by building a covert ops center, an Angel base would have a +4 probe rating automatically. Any comments?

	30-01-2002 22:21									#15
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We have survived Planetfall. It is so good to breathe "real" air again, after so much time spent breathing canned air! And yet we mourn for the comrades we lost on Unity, as well as all of the genetic samples lost: Datatec vitaminj (who our Intelligence Division now informs us is the head of a "Shadow Faction" that was aboard Unity) had been charged with releasing all of Unity's pods into re-entry windows so that they would land safely on Planet. Alas, as we entered the atmosphere we could see the pods burning up all around us! Hoepfully a few survived, but our fears are that none did. When we meet on Planet, we will have words with Datatec vitaminj over this disaster (that is, if he didn't program in the wrong re-entry trajectory for his own escape pods....)

Sorry about the reload - I think I had too many windows open on the computer.

Turn to Psy

	30-01-2002 23:17									#16
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darsnan, turn not received. i don't know what the heck is going on with my email... Earthlink has plumeted on my ISP approval list since I installed it last month.

if it isn't too much trouble, always send your turns to ALL my mailboxes:

psybermagus@earthlink.net
psybermagus2323@hotmail.com
brianb@cancerresearch.org

at least ONE of them has got to work!

cheers,

psy

	30-01-2002 23:45									#17
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vitamin j, you are correct that the Angels should have a probe team to begin with.

Since we are still so early on, perhaps we could do a restart. SITS should be able to go in and add your probe team and perhaps he could even confirm with Paul by e-mail that Paul did get the tech he wanted.

Actually, the Gaians do not get a mindworm to start with, although they will capture the first one they find in the fungus.

Morgan gets 100 extra credits and Aki starts with her normal two techs.

This is certainly no reflection on SITS. I am delighted to have SITS serve as the CMN for this game. As you all know, I have been experimenting with the scenario editor myself for the past few days and it is almost overwhelming all the choices you have to make to get a good game up and running. I am amazed that SITS was able to put this together as quickly as he did.

It is probably worth starting over to get your probe team in place for you since we are still so early on.

Last edited by Qantaga on 31-01-2002 at 00:42

	30-01-2002 23:51									#18
	Tired of ads?

whatever vj wants is fine with me (and thanx for the tip about the mindworms - I'll have to go sniffing thru the fungus and see what I can find!) Also, if we do start over, will we get the same starting locations? I would ask that we do.


D

	31-01-2002 00:10									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Also, if we do start over, will we get the same starting locations? I would ask that we do. D

Absolutely, we wouldn't be looking for anything major, just adding the probe team to make sure that vitamin j doesn't feel at an early disadvantage.

	31-01-2002 00:51									#20
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Hi all

Sorry about the Probe team vj. I made the mistake of reading the manual and it doesn't say anything in there about it. As I've never played the Angels before I didn't realise. Starting the game again will be no problem. As of yet I've received no objection from Paul for the tech I selected for him. The only other addition I made sure of was that the Morgans get an extra 100 credits which should be in the game. If there are any other things I've forgot to add then please contact me asap!

A restart will mean that everybody starts in the same location etc. To ensure fairness I think you should still send the turn of the 'old' game (saying what is happening in the email) on to all the players so that they can look at their start positions the same as everybody else. I will be sending out the new turn very shortly and thank you all for your patience!

	31-01-2002 01:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by SITS thank you all for your patience!

SITS, no problem at all!

I think you have it covered now:

-Angels free probe team
-Uni's free tech
-Morgan's extra 100 credits
-every faction's normal starting techs

Thanks!

	31-01-2002 01:35									#22
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Restart with added Probe team sent to vitamin j. Please, for the first turn can you say in the email body when you send it on that this is the restarted version so we can avoid confusion. Enjoy!

	31-01-2002 03:05									#23
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Thank you once again, SITS. I've got the new start and will send it off shortly. I apologize to everyone for the inconvenience. All right! Lost Secrets, aka D'Arsnan and the Free Marketeers, is underway!

	31-01-2002 03:15									#24
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okay, turn received, and forwarded to Q.

(i'm referring to the first version, of course, not the restarted game).

i'm just curious why, though I'm playing Aki, my avatar and color scheme are that of the Drones? any idea? DataJack has his proper avatar...

cheers,

Psy

	31-01-2002 04:03									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just one of the quirks of MP. You rarely if ever get your actual faction art/portrait...

	31-01-2002 04:22									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The worst is being Sister Miriam when you had selected Deidre: makes me nautious everytime I look in the mirror!

O.K., vj, awaiting the turn from you!

D

	31-01-2002 04:30									#27
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The way to get around the graphic change (if you can be bothered) is to start a game before hand with the factions in the right order - land on Planet and quit the game. When you load up Lost Secrets then it should have the proper graphics...

	31-01-2002 06:06									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Ok, 2102 revised has been sent to Darsnan. I hope we're good to go now.

One more time, big ups and props to SITS for setting this up for us.

While taking my first turn (the second time) I was sitting there thinking "Ok, Data Angels... Which project do they need the most..." Then I'm like, oops...

We must deal with our project addiction the only way we can...

COLD TURKEY!!!

	31-01-2002 06:16									#29
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"What was that!"
"It was like we had already landed our forces on Planet, and now we find ourselves back on the escape pods - is it some sort of dimensional rift or time warp!?!"
"Never mind - did Datatec vitaminj save the pods this time?"
Pilot looks out the window, sees streaks of red again, "no".
"Expletive! He must've gone thru the same dimensional rift and known what was happening! How could he let this happen again!?! "
Pilot points to the sensors, "but look what our sensors caught! Something significant on Planet!"
"What is it?"
"Can't quite tell from here, and we're being eclipsed by Planet now. Hold on, we're going in!"

Turn to psy

	31-01-2002 07:46									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by vitamin j Also, I remember reading somewhere that a +4 probe rating was forbidden for some reason. I was never clear on why this is, and it is particularly applicable to the Angels as they can run fundamentalism. And by building a covert ops center, an Angel base would have a +4 probe rating automatically. Any comments?

It's not that it is forbidden, but that due to an uncorrected bug the system counts down after the +4 rating - so that if you were to run fundy and thought control you'd actually be a +2 probe instead of a +6 (as would running either as the Angels and building a Covert Ops center - that base would be +2 instead of +6)

And with a +3 probe you have subversion immunity, so it's something to guard (and watch) carefully.

G.