29-01-2002 17:47									#1
	technology Full PM-box? Change here!

Just a wondered if anyone knows how this happens. I started a game a game off well getting seven technologies right off the bat by finding barbarian villages and was well ahead of my neighbour the germans in the tech tree. I had my science jacked up the highest I could without losing a whole lot of money but by the time the first hour of the game ended, I was last in technology and the germans were first. How did they get that far ahead of me so fast. There is no way they research that many tech's so quick??

	29-01-2002 18:17									#2
	Re: technology Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by temacc Just a wondered if anyone knows how this happens. I started a game a game off well getting seven technologies right off the bat by finding barbarian villages and was well ahead of my neighbour the germans in the tech tree. I had my science jacked up the highest I could without losing a whole lot of money but by the time the first hour of the game ended, I was last in technology and the germans were first. How did they get that far ahead of me so fast. There is no way they research that many tech's so quick??

The other civs actively trade techs with themselves. Once they make contact with each other, you can expect technology to spread very quickly amongst each other. So if one of them gets a tech from goody huts, as you did, then pretty much all the rest will have it soon afterwards.

	29-01-2002 18:30									#3
	Support Apolyton

That does make sense, but if I try to trade technologies with any other civ they want my best tech as well as my left leg and get pissed if they don't get twice what they asked for. Does this have to do with my military size, city size or culture rating. Some civs want more then others too.

	29-01-2002 18:44									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by temacc That does make sense, but if I try to trade technologies with any other civ they want my best tech as well as my left leg and get pissed if they don't get twice what they asked for. Does this have to do with my military size, city size or culture rating. Some civs want more then others too.

The other civs are programmed so that some are harder to trade with than others, and yes some of them are just plain difficult. One tip, if any of them takes the initiative, don't just accept the offer they're presenting but go for negotiations. If they are the ones starting negotiations, then it means that they want something from you very much, and they might possibly give you the moon instead.

	29-01-2002 23:02									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The short answer is it your weakness that determines what is offered/demaned. Build more units and trades will be better. Check the mil advisor and if he says comared to them we are weak, you will be having problems with them.

	29-01-2002 23:59									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

vmx...

My military is reported as "strong" compared to just about everyone, and I'm still getting poor deals. This is my glacial Babylon game, Monarch level, ongoing war with Persia. Now sometimes the AI civ has nothing to offer, but they almost *never* offer tech, and typically I'll get an offer (for Democracy, say) of a World Map and 4gp/turn. Stinkorino.

	30-01-2002 00:13									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard vmx... My military is reported as "strong" compared to just about everyone, and I'm still getting poor deals. This is my glacial Babylon game, Monarch level, ongoing war with Persia. Now sometimes the AI civ has nothing to offer, but they almost *never* offer tech, and typically I'll get an offer (for Democracy, say) of a World Map and 4gp/turn. Stinkorino.

One thing you've got to try sometimes is just basic haggling. I've noticed sometimes if I make a counter offer, then go back to their original request, they've changed their demands and become more reasonable. Not very often, but it does happen. Cleo especially I've had some fairly lengthy dealings with, and though she usually gets the better end of the deal, our final arrangement is much more acceptable than the initial offer.

It might have something to do with the fact that every so often I just outright give them 25-50 gold as a gift. It might be making them more agreeable towards trading with me. I'm not really sure, but it might be worth a try.

	30-01-2002 01:42									#8
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Willem One tip, if any of them takes the initiative, don't just accept the offer they're presenting but go for negotiations. If they are the ones starting negotiations, then it means that they want something from you very much, and they might possibly give you the moon instead.

During diplomacy, I always come back with a counter-offer. Usually, a civ will offer me their territory map in exchange for a resource or a tech and an outrageous amount of money. I ask if they'll listen to a counter-offer, then offer them my territory map and a resource or two or a tech .......... they usually offer me their first-born and tons of gold for the next 20 turns.

One thing that happened in my current game - Alexander demanded a tech (economics) and in return he said he would not destroy me. I refused, then turned around and offered him my territory map, world map, and some spices. He gave me his world map, twenty gold per turn, and a lump sum of sixty gold. Not a bad deal. I keep him happy for several more turns and he pays me to do it.

	30-01-2002 02:48									#9
	Re: technology Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by temacc How did they get that far ahead of me so fast. There is no way they research that many tech's so quick??

Well, a few things. First they are trading, second as more civs have a tech the cheaper that tech becomes to research. If you are in the lead you have to research it all and as you pull ahead they get more expensive as well, slowing you down unless you are expanding like mad to some ideal amount of cities, and then improving and building libraries and aqueducts and such. And then somehow you have to throw the FP in there to expand more.

You have to trade a lot too. Get them to making payments. Make a beeline for higher level techs and trade or extort the lower level ones you didn't research. Keep them poor. A poor civ can't participate in the trading and falls behind.

	30-01-2002 09:48									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Willem, as it happens I am now doing a monarch, std map as Babs and they offer you junk for stuff, mainly because they are pinched for cash. If they think, you are weak they dis you. Remember that their perspective of value is not the same as yours. The one thing they usually want is luxs. Once they are in a squeeze they will cough up more, say they are getting pressure and are behind the civ that is after them, they pay for a tech that is useful or lead to the one they want. At times when the land is grabbed and you are the only one not giving out maps, they will pay big for it. Since no one is allowed to enter my land and I never give out ROP/MPP they are eager to get a map even a world map. I may offer it to get one to go to war with one of my attackers or for cash.