29-01-2002 17:54									#1
	My Ancient-Era War vs. Chinese Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have a question, as I'm still fairly new to the game. In my current game, I'm playing as the Romans. To my north was the Chinese capital. I quickly began researching up to iron working, and pumping out as many settlers as I could to claim as much land as I could - I discovered I was on a fairly wide penninsula, with my only land-based neighbors being the Chinese.

After discovering iron working and doing some exploring with my archers, I saw that the Chinese capital only had a pop of 1, and they had just founded a second city to their southeast, Shanghai. In their territory, they had a source of iron, a source of incense, and two sources of spices. Needless to say, I wanted that land.

I went about my assault all wrong - rather than amassing an army of Legionaires, I assaulted Shanghai with a wave of regular archers (4) and warriors (2), in order to probe China's defenses. Shanghai fell, even though I lost all but one archer. I then moved up an army of eight Legionaires to attack Beijing.

I destroyed all of the Chinese improvements - roads, mines, and irrigation. I then managed to take Beijing in three turns - only because I spent some time moving my troops rather than attacking all at once from the same direction.

Here's my question: I occupied Beijing, got a slave worker out of the deal, plus my resources that I was after in the first place. Maybe a dozen turns later, the Chinese contact me, and ask to exchange territory maps. I agree, and I now see that they have occupied a small tract of land just south of the Greeks, slightly further north from my location that they originally were. Since I razed one city and occupied their capital, how did they manage to survive and found a new city? What should I have done different to see that they were wiped off the face of the planet?

	29-01-2002 20:20									#2
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I haven't seen it myself, but I'm told that any eliminated civ will restart if they get wiped out early enough, including civs controlled by humans.

	29-01-2002 22:38									#3
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This is the reason I do NOT conqure the world from the start. AI always has a settler on spare if somthing like this happens. There is a reason that their captial was only pop 1, because they spent all that time making settlers.

I recommend one of two things (or both).

1: Wait until at least 90% of the world's land is control by a civ
2: Find out where they are now, and offer an arm and a leg to the civ closest to them for a military alliance.

To date I have not been able to destroy a civ completly because of this. Everytime I see this I'm like .

	30-01-2002 00:24									#4
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Hmm. This never seemed to happen to me. When I wipe people out, they stay wiped out. Especially those damn treaty breaking persians. . . . .

	30-01-2002 01:30									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 AI always has a settler on spare if somthing like this happens. There is a reason that their captial was only pop 1, because they spent all that time making settlers.

That would explain it, then. That's what I get for not thinking out of the box.

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 1: Wait until at least 90% of the world's land is control by a civ.

I'm at that juncture now. There are only some small islands left uninhabited by a civ.

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 2: Find out where they are now, and offer an arm and a leg to the civ closest to them for a military alliance.

On my continent, the Greeks dominate the northern half and I - the Romans - dominate the southern half. The Chinese are sandwiched in between us, and they have been limited to approx. 6 cities with no - as of yet - resources whatsoever. I'm now building up my military strength along my border with the Chinese. I haven't approached Greece about a military pact yet - with my luck, they would decide to take on the Americans - who are a continent away but are the largest and most powerful civ.

The nice thing about America is that they are boxed in on all four sides by the Iroquois, the Japanese, the French, and the English. I wonder how easy it would be to gain them as allies and then pick a fight with the Americans.

	30-01-2002 09:56									#6
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I see that in most of my games as I play warmonger. If I kill the only town they have, the first time they are given a city (they do not have a settler waiting, it is part of the game). The second time they will be eliminated. I was doing an EMP game on a small map and holding some land behind me when I finished one off and the AI gave them a city in my backyard, the very land I had been defending all along. The most hateful part is if the city is put way out of my range and now if I have any of their cities, I can not end the anger, as I can not make peace or eliminate them. I did a test were I surround the last city and arty bomb it till it only had one pop and then finished the city and they popped up. No way a settler could have gotten out.

	30-01-2002 20:15									#7
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I believe if you destroy a civ AFTER 1AD, it stays destroyed.

	30-01-2002 22:32									#8
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In my current Monarch game, I destroyed Germany about 1400 BC, and they stayed destroyed. They were basically boxed, with India west, Babylon south, and Russia east. There was some "unbordered" land around, but not much.

	30-01-2002 23:33									#9
	AI Cheat Put an end to popups!

If you wipe out a civ AND there is enough fog of war obscured land available, the AI will automatically restart once. If you kill them a second time they are dead for good. I conquered the world in 190BC, so the 1AD thing is not a break point.

	31-01-2002 03:44									#10
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The 1 ad is a mirage, just a coincidence. The first game I played (pre patch, so it could have changed) I eliminate a civ and it was with modern armour and very late in the game and they were given a city. I reloaded to see if they had a settler and they did not. I had the whole map visually as I had put unit in open areas to see what was going on to prove they did not have a settler lurking someplace. This was a large map, I no longer play on maps bigger than std, so I have not seen late game resurrections. I would prefer that they were not given a second change, we do not have MP, so why do we need it? The AI does not care if it did not get to play. This feature makes sense for MP, so if you got a bad draw and were ejected early, you can get some PT (playing time).

	31-01-2002 05:06									#11
	Free restart Get a bigger avatar today!

A friend of mine had a civ reappear after he wiped them out. He reloaded the save game and moved his units around to cover the area where the civ reappeared before. Well, the civ reappeared, but in a new spot. So the key, is that there must be enough available land somewhere and it looks like each civ gets 1 restart.

	31-01-2002 19:26									#12
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Haertgaeden,

I think it may also be possible that you did in fact not obliterate the Chinese entirely. They might have founded their third city before you conquered the two other ones.

The key here is whether you got a message from your Military Advisor upon taking Beijing, informing that you destroyed the Chinese civilization - if that is the case then they restarted, but from the sound of it you didn't get any such notice, so I would think you didn't entirely wipe them out the first time around.

	31-01-2002 23:45									#13
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I didn't get that notice until the end of my second war with the Chinese. I guess they were prepared and had moved a settler up to the north right before I took their capital.

	01-02-2002 00:33									#14
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They were not prepare and if you kill the last existing city, it will not always eliminate them. Civs are given out of the clear blue sky a new town the first time they get whacked. The second time you will get the msg about being defeated. If you get that msg, they will not come back period.