30-01-2002 23:32									#1
	Axis of Evil? "Tact" and "diplomacy" not found in Bush' vocabula Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Iran, Iraq, North Korea. The Axis of Evil.



We already knew Bush is clueless when it comes to international relations, especcially after his statements about fighting a "crusade". And he has yet proven this once again by his totally rediculous "Axis of Evil" remark.

Right or wrong isn't the issue here. It's about stupidity and a lack of tact. First relations between Iran and the US were warming up because of Afghanistan. Iran even offered to aid the US in rescueing wounded troops, and it has said it will help Afghanistan recover. But after this moronic statement Bush' has managed to, once again, alienate countries from the US, and push America's "enemies" closer together.

Instead of organising talks between North and South Korea, Bush somehow finds it appropriate to call the north "evil". Great going Shrubya, how on earth is that country going to open up when you keep it shut down by your stupid remarks. Someone really needs to shut that guy up.

Worse still, I won't be surprised if Bush will give the order to attack those countries he named. Now that will be something to rally the world. Against the US that is. Russia, France and the Arabs are against an attack on Iraq, and China will undoubtly aid the North Koreans should the US invade. It's amazing how some totally unqualified people can become world leaders by having the right connections.

Powell for President! At least he's a republican with common sense.

	30-01-2002 23:34									#2
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Moronic Troll


Have you met Bush? Do you know him? Have you talked to him? Have you sat next to him in class?

I didnt think so....

So stop making Stereotypes and assumptions to feed your anti-american Ego.


The Ignorance on this board is amazing.

	30-01-2002 23:45									#3
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I have been and will hopefully continue to be a staunch Bush supporter. I think he has done a fine job as president.

But, even I cringed in my seat when he started on "AXIS OF EVIL"
part of his speech. It was a bit over the top and might reverse some of the positive trends that we've seen In NK and Iran. Maybe he has access to information that those suppossed positives were just PR and not real so he wasn't worried about flushing them down the drain. You can't tell.
Granted it was a speech to the American People, and that's generally what we wanted to hear, but he should have considered the international take on it as well. Frequenting this place has really made me more sensitive to those types of things.
For that I have you all to thank.

RAH

I also think focusing on weapons of mass destruction is also not a good idea, since many of our allies have nuke capabilities.

	30-01-2002 23:48									#4
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Our allies (europe, Israel, Russia) are all very responsible with there weapons. If N. Korea got nukes...I wonder if they would honestly use them against S.Korea or Japan. Or maybe even the W. Coast USA.

And if Iraq got nukes....god help us all..we would have to turn the country into a pile of worthless dust.

	30-01-2002 23:50									#5
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A useless speech.

What else did you expect from that moron.

	30-01-2002 23:52									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus First relations between Iran and the US were warming up because of Afghanistan.

A truely historic opportunity for the Iranian people which they themselves promptly flushed down the toilet by shipping 50 tons of weapons and ammunition to the PA.

	30-01-2002 23:54									#7
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Diplomacy shmiplomacy.
No good intentions will cause Iran to stop developing nuclear weapons, to stop sending thousands of long range Katyushas to the Hizballa and fund terrorists group like the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.

	30-01-2002 23:57									#8
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And when diplomacy fails, we send in the F-16's and AGM's. Which never fail.

It will happen...mark my words. Bush is not going back to the next State of the Union empty handed. This will be resolved within a year.




And your little terrorist coward ass friends will be obliterated like they were never there, with much precision and ease.

	30-01-2002 23:59									#9
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Our enemies of old are friends today.
The ruskies and the us came close to the brink more than once.
Our friends today could become our enemy tomorrow.

Yes it is symantics but I think Bush could have worded it a little differently.

When the speech is reviewed as many times prior and practiced as much as he did, I can't believe that someone didn't look up and go, "DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE"

RAH
Overall, I think it was good speech. And well delievered for all you people that continue to believe that Bush is not a good public speaker.

	31-01-2002 00:01									#10
	Re: Axis of Evil? "Tact" and "diplomacy" not found in Bush' voca Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Iran, Iraq, North Korea. The Axis of Evil.

Those regimes are evil...

quote: Right or wrong isn't the issue here. It's about stupidity and a lack of tact. First relations between Iran and the US were warming up because of Afghanistan. Iran even offered to aid the US in rescueing wounded troops, and it has said it will help Afghanistan recover. But after this moronic statement Bush' has managed to, once again, alienate countries from the US, and push America's "enemies" closer together.

Iran, one of the largest sponsors of terrorism in the world.

We don't want warming relations with them. Like the Iranian people, we want to get rid of the Ayatollah and have a real democratic government for Iran.

quote: Instead of organising talks between North and South Korea, Bush somehow finds it appropriate to call the north "evil". Great going Shrubya, how on earth is that country going to open up when you keep it shut down by your stupid remarks. Someone really needs to shut that guy up.

Yeah, sure, Bush is to blame because the leader of NK is oppressive moron.

quote: Worse still, I won't be surprised if Bush will give the order to attack those countries he named. Now that will be something to rally the world. Against the US that is. Russia, France and the Arabs are against an attack on Iraq, and China will undoubtly aid the North Koreans should the US invade. It's amazing how some totally unqualified people can become world leaders by having the right connections.

The arab governments will be quite happy to see Saddam go.

And if you think China would help North Korea, you're way out of touch with the going's on in the world.

	31-01-2002 00:02									#11
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by faded glory
Moronic Troll


Have you met Bush? Do you know him? Have you talked to him? Have you sat next to him in class?

I didnt think so....

QUOTE]


what sort of statement is that? if those were the criteria for having an opinion on a public figure, they would be pratically beyond reproach!

all we have to go on is how the man conducts himself and comes across, not on whether we used to paint finger pictures with him in playschool

	31-01-2002 00:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's A useless speech. What else did you expect from that moron.

Obviously you didn't check out the reaction in US papers. It was well received which makes it far from useless.

But then, what else can I expect from a moron.

RAH
Did you even see/read it?
Or are you just reacting based on sound bytes/comments or total ignorance?

	31-01-2002 00:05									#13
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what sort of statement is that? if those were the criteria for having an opinion on a public figure, they would be pratically beyond reproach!

all we have to go on is how the man conducts himself and comes across, not on whether we used to paint finger pictures with him in playschool [/QUOTE]

Im just pointing out some people hate him no matter what he says. The trolling is pretty thinly vieled these days

	31-01-2002 00:12									#14
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at the end of the day the speech was written for americans and as such was a success, but (and this is not a troll) does anyone think it may be at the back of his advisors minds to keep the fear and anger boiling in america as long a possible, and try to get re-elected on the back of how resolute he was in the face of terror?

	31-01-2002 00:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Moronic Troll Have you met Bush? Do you know him? Have you talked to him? Have you sat next to him in class? I didnt think so.... So stop making Stereotypes and assumptions to feed your anti-american Ego.

Neither have most peoples in these countries. Therefore the statement, right or wrong, in or out of the correct context, is not endearing. Have you guys not understood why so many of the peoples hate you?

Besides, diplomacy is about getting what you want/beleive, not saying what you want/believe.

Why do you think some countries suck up to the USA? Cos they like you? No, they just see opportunites.

	31-01-2002 00:21									#16
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I would rather add Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to the list of "Evil Axis" than Irak and North Korea. Despite Saddam's viciousness, he is neither a fundamentalist nor a sponsor of Al-Qaeda, but more of a mobster. I see the fundamentalists as far more dangerous than a gangster could ever be.

	31-01-2002 00:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever at the end of the day the speech was written for americans and as such was a success, but (and this is not a troll) does anyone think it may be at the back of his advisors minds to keep the fear and anger boiling in america as long a possible, and try to get re-elected on the back of how resolute he was in the face of terror?

It's an election year for a lot of seats in Congress. If it wasn't at the front of their minds, then they're idiots. Just Politics as usual.
But you're right, you have to consider the audience that his speech was targeted too.

But my point was he could have had the same impact but toned it down a bit for international consumption.

RAH

	31-01-2002 00:24									#18
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quote: Originally posted by rah Obviously you didn't check out the reaction in US papers. It was well received which makes it far from useless. But then, what else can I expect from a moron. RAH Did you even see/read it? Or are you just reacting based on sound bytes/comments or total ignorance?

Why should I care about the reaction...it's as if Bush has Americans hyponotised that he can do no wrong. Hasn't worked with anyone else though.

Yes, I read it. Well..most of it. I kind of skipped the parts of "we're so wonderful because we got attacked" nonsense he needed to spill out.

	31-01-2002 00:34									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Why should I care about the reaction...it's as if Bush has Americans hyponotised that he can do no wrong. Hasn't worked with anyone else though. Yes, I read it. Well..most of it. I kind of skipped the parts of "we're so wonderful because we got attacked" nonsense he needed to spill out.

The reaction is the whole point. That was the purpose of the speech. To get people lined up to support his initiatives. Are you learning anything at all in school or are you just boozing and whoring? You owe it to yourself to pay attention in classes.

And if you think americans are hyponotised that he can do no wrong, you are even more ignorant than my earlier stipulation.
I would appreciate it, if just once, you'd engage your brain before typing.

RAH
Oh, I forget, trolls don't think,just drink

	31-01-2002 00:51									#20
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We are on a crusade against the axis of evil to bring to infinite justice the evil doers.

hey, whatever gets it on for you


seriously, Bush's speech is two fold: preparing the US public and sending messages to other countries.

it is a unilaterist US government we have up there.


and this IS diplomacy. the speech was prepared. it IS the US policies it served.

	31-01-2002 00:54									#21
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Moronic Troll

Have you met Marcus? Do you know him? Have you talked to him? Have you sat next to him in class?

I didnt think so....

So stop making Stereotypes and assumptions to feed your anti-european Ego.


The Ignorance on this board is amazing.

	31-01-2002 00:55									#22
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I have been unimpressed with Iran over the last couple of months. The democratic forces are starting to lose out, the judiciary is cracking down, and the intelligence forces are doing stupid sh!t, like being a waypoint for fleeing Taliban/Al Qaeda and giving arms to Hamas/Hezbollah when we were trying to be the most helpful.

"he is neither a fundamentalist nor a sponsor of Al-Qaeda"

The point was that any day, Iraq may have nuclear weapons, and already has other WOMD. This is a pitch to the head to send a message about that. If he continues to seek nukes, we'll destroy his regime.

	31-01-2002 01:06									#23
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quote: With friends like that....

Aye Mis Moneypenny. You took the words right out of my mouth

	31-01-2002 01:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Aye Mis Moneypenny. You took the words right out of my mouth

Kindly stop stalking me, Mr. Bond.

	31-01-2002 01:34									#25
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Mark , didn't you criticize the US for siding with dictatures and dangerous regimes ? so , they listened to your advice ! dammit ,you simply can't please sertain people.

so do you rather prefer good relations with that regime in Iran??? are you OK? you know that this will legitimize it . And that's bad.

Iraq : the dangerous thing is that Saddam has already shown that he has no restraints in using unconventional weapons .





generally , Mark , that was not right.

	31-01-2002 01:47									#26
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Look, the man talks like he walked straight off the pages of a comic book. "Evil doers." "Infinite Justice." "Axis of evil." "Is our children learning?" (hmmm... forget that last one.) And, frankly, that's what a lot of people like about him. It's not his fault. It's the public's fault for not expecting more of the most powerful man on Earth.

	31-01-2002 01:48									#27
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Yet another blunder by Bush... Well it just goes to show that he's learned nothing from this whole Afghanistan deal.

quote: The Ignorance on this board is amazing.

-Well take matters into your own hands: Leave.

quote: Bush is not going back to the next State of the Union empty handed

-You mean someone will assassinate him in the meantime?

quote: We don't want warming relations with them. Like the Iranian people, we want to get rid of the Ayatollah and have a real democratic government for Iran.

-You do realize that Iran has a moderate elected president, right?

quote: Yeah, sure, Bush is to blame because the leader of NK is oppressive moron.

-Think of it this way. What does he gain by calling them "evil"?

quote: Im just pointing out some people hate him no matter what he says. The trolling is pretty thinly vieled these days

-If it's trolling to criticize Bush...

	31-01-2002 02:01									#28
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quote: You do realize that Iran has a moderate elected president, right?

oh sure ... elected . there was a great choice of candidates there . him and the suicidal bomber guy .

moderate ? so he's moderately undemocratic ? moderately fundamentalistic ? or should I say moderately "evil" ?

	31-01-2002 02:04									#29
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Hey, for Iran, that's progress

	31-01-2002 02:11									#30
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those speeches are writeen well in advance by people much smarter than Bush. Bush doesn't ad lib his speeches.

I'm sure there is a reason they mentioned those countries in the State of union address...