31-01-2002 22:17									#1
	Newbie Baits France! Now what? Support Apolyton

First the facts:
Huge earth map, Warlord, 8 civs

I'm playing the Americans with largely a builder strategy, though I did start three small wars with the Aztecs, eventually wiping them out. As a result, I own all of South America (and part of Alaska).

I wanted to expand into North America, currently held by France and the Iroquois, but I didn't want the negative effects of declaring war (both from the civil unrest perspective and the complex web of MPPs).

I want France's territory. They're my biggest rival, matching tech and largely untouched by war. They need to be taken down a peg. The issue is that we both have MPPs with the other key players (most importantly the Iroquois, but also a strong Greece in Africa).

I'm ready for the big assault. My military advisor says my army's bigger than Joan's. I have 60+ tanks, couple dozen bombers/f-15s and some cruise missiles in Panama. I've got destroyers, battleships and carriers up the West coast and in the Gulf. I have (per another great Apolyton post) landed Mechanized Infantry on a French mountain to take the brunt of the counter-attack via instant-railroad transport. I've switched to Communism.

Most importantly from a diplomatic perspective, I managed to get France to declare War. ("From Polite to Furious: A Newbie's Guide to Getting Them to Declare" is a post for another day.)

Now what?

No shots have been fired.

What do I need to do to get the Iroquois & Greeks in on my side? The Foreign Advisor hasn't mentioned them yet, so I'm assuming they're still on the fence. Do I need to get France to attack me on my soil? Will they do that if I just fortify all my poised troops? Is it a mistake to have troops & ships within France's borders until they make their first strike? Will they ever?

Ben

	31-01-2002 23:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Try moving units into French territory and placing them over strategic resources. This may not activate their MPP, but they can attack you w/ out activating your MPP (your in their territory). If you block or pillage their resources, they may invade and activate your MPP. Perhaps.

I don't know if pillaging their roads and such will activate their MPP.

	31-01-2002 23:26									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why don't you try Military alliances vs . the french? It often costs you only a luxury for 20 turns, but maybe you get much more pleasure out of it

	31-01-2002 23:34									#4
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Why are you concerned about others? If I had 60 tanks I would crush everyone on the land mass. In fact I would have crushed them, well before I had all of the might you have. I presume you have RR in all of you cities, so you can defend with ease? If you have a spy in for France, look at their armies (to see how much and what they have), find the biggest placement and destroy it. I never need more than 30 tanks for a std map, because I have been warring the whole game with everyone to keep their army in check. Most of my units will be elite from all of the wars and I have tanks before them, so I want to captialize on that. Raze the cities near you so they can not gain speed from the roads, to rush troops to you borders. Every now and then grap a city to relocate the bombers so they are in range (pound it down to a few citizens) or bring a settler (my preferred way). The AI will be blitzed and not be able to cope.

	01-02-2002 00:58									#5
	Got spare money?

Run a worker out to the nearest point within your own territory to a French military unit. Scoot your military a few squares away, if they're in this area. The computer will almost definitely swoop down on the unprotected worker, triggering every MPP you have, and voiding the MPPs France has with those same civs.

While I think 60 tanks should be more than enough to take on just about any civ I've had to take down, It's still nice to be able to take out a civ in as few turns as possible. Eliminating the original owners of a town reduces the chance of a culture flip.

Also plan your offensive carefully, so once you take out the towns closest to the borders, you are in a position to use the roads/railroads now in your (or neutral) territory to attack other cities in the same turn that you wouldn't have been able to reach at the start of the turn. In other words, don't move any units that aren't attacking until the attacks are done (bringing workers in to build roads/railroads ahead of your offense is an exception), as the movement will be faster once you own the teritory.

	01-02-2002 21:42									#6
	Support Apolyton

Since I'm still learning and it's sorta a training game ...

Anyway, I played it two ways last night from a save just after France declared war and my troops were poised.

When I did nothing (and before I could reposition a worker to be bait at the edge of my borders), France attacked my ships in their territorial waters. Greece and the Iroquois declared against France (and the Iroquois immdiately took a city I wanted before my next turn ....).

Second game, I shelled cities from the sea and softened cities with bombers before France had their chance to attack, Greece and the Iroquois declared against me.

If anyone is interested, just ask and I'll post a save game pre-attack.

Ben

	02-02-2002 00:07									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Something about MPPs

If both you and enemy have MPPs with same civs you should do this:
-let enemy attacks you on your territory (this triggers the MPP)
-don't try to do same on enemy territory (this triggers MPP for thier benefit)

Fully tested and used.