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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:12
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Well, I'd say Apollo is the most powerful wonder ... 
SETI is so late in the game that it rarely makes a difference towards victory. And you could always build Research Labs, so it merely saves money - and only if you have to build more than 3 labs.
Hanging Gardens is much better than Mike's, since you can always build Cathedrals but nothing will replace the HG. Also, because it is available so early, once more the effect is much greater.
Even the Lighthouse has a much greater effect than Magellan. Easy exploration early on is way more important than quicker movement later, when you could simply build a few more ships to compensate. And vet status, too!
Marco Polo beats the UN, too. IMHO the Hoover Dam may be the only major late wonder (not counting Apollo), for a large empire or if you can't build Hydroplants.
So, about all early wonders are clearly better than their later counterparts. But it takes longer to build them.
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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kcbob
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Kansas City, MO USA
Dec 1999
time: 23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Smash on 09-13-2000 06:55 PM
The manual is wrong regarding Copernicus' Observatory and Sir Isaac's College.We all know that.Its basically backwards.
But does it not make sense?Cope's is the cheaper of the 2(300 sheilds)(Isaac 400)and yet it is more powerful as it doubles the science in the city.Isaac's only gives 50% more.
Seems like it should be the other way round.
Some programmer made a boo-boo.
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I think the percentages are 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other.
If you start with an initial city beaker production of, let's say, 12 beakers, and then throw in a library (50 % increase), Cop's (100% increase), a University (50% increase), and then Sir Isaac (50% increase), you get the following:
12*1.5=18(Library)
18*2=36(Cop's)
36*1.5=54(University)
54*1.5=81(Sir Isaac)
On the other hand, if you change Cop's to 50% and Sir Isaac to 100%, you get the following results:
12*1.5=18(Library)
18*1.5=27(Cop's)
27*1.5=40.5(University)
40.5*2=81(Sir Isaac)
The latter wonder (Sir Isaac's) should cost more since you should be able to produce more, i.e., more cities. Therefore, is there any real problem?
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Frodo lives!
Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.
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Bohlen
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of Space
Nov 1999
time: 00:12
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I always tend to give the Civ programmers the benefit of the doubt when talking of programming mistakes or oversights. It’s nice to believe that Sid & Co. really intended on some of the game’s idiosyncrasies
With that said, it could make sense that Cope’s is cheaper, yet more powerful, due to “the age of discovery” that it represents. Convincing the world that the Earth is not the center of the universe was, IMHO, more enlightening than a theory of why we fall and stay on the ground. Of course, these two Wonders represent more sweeping change and breakthrough than just these two ideas, but I would say that the building upon an established science (Ike’s) is less influential and more difficult than the establishment of the science itself (Cope’s).
So, if you buy this idea, then maybe this is the way these two wonders are supposed to work. They either screwed up on the manual or programming, I guess. Take your pick.
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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance
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debeest
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Well, obviously SOMEONE made a booboo. I suspect the programmers, since in my opinion the later Wonders do tend to be more powerful. But I've also noticed that, in my games, there tends to be a period roughly corresponding to the dark and medieval ages when tech development seems to slow down just as it did in real-world Europe. Maybe Copernicus is actually intended to help us through that slow time.
Some good points have been made, but not connected up. As HsFB noted, libraries and universities and research labs only ADD 50% of BASE science (just as markets and banks and stocks and factories and power plants and mfg plants only ADD 50% of BASE). But Copernicus and Newton MULTIPLY the combined total. That's much more powerful. Since libraries and universities only add, kcbob's calculations based on 12 beakers would actually produce only 72 beakers, not 81:
(12 + 6 (library) + 6 (university)) * 2 (CO) * 1.5 (IN)
Also, everyone seems to have forgotten that the two Wonders are often found in different cities! If YOU don't build them together, the AI certainly won't. And in that case, it DOES matter which one is 2x and which is only 1x.
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14-09-2000 03:55
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