04-02-2002 11:50									#1
	Well, well, well, look at this... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I just headed over to the Simgolf website to get the patch, and what do I find in the forums but a post from Sid himself.

Yep, that's right, he's there, asking questions about what people want in a patch and generally showing interest in hearing fans' ideas. I still like Civ 3, but I'm sort of disappointed that while it seems so rushed and unpolished, Sid himself is asking fans for ideas regarding the SECOND patch for Simgolf. Uh-huh, he's talking about the second patch personally, (Simgolf is unpolished too, but more fun than Civ 3 so far) while we get no word about Civ.

I've seen a few people comment that Civ 3 is messed up because Sid was way more interested in Simgolf than Civ, heh, guess they were right. I used to chuckle at those people, now I have to chuckle at myself

I guess it's not a huge deal, but it is very disheartening.

I'll paste the post here for the morbidly curious, so you don't have to register and dig the SG forums...



__________________________________________________
__
Author: MaxisSid
Date: Feb-01-02 05:13 PM PST
Subject: Thanks, ideas for next patch, and question.

Wow, you guys certainly have a lot of well thought out suggestions for the game - I'm having
a hard time keeping up! I think this weekend we'll start to put together a patch which will
include the most-requested and easiest to implement improvements to the game. If you've
already posted your ideas on this BBS there's no need to post again, we'll review all the posts
as we put the patch together. Please understand that we can't include every great idea. We'll
definately change the 50 year retirement so that you can keep playing normally - perhaps
without updates to the Top 10 Designers screen. I'm guessing this should take about 7-10 days
plus testing time.
Question: In the demo the '+' gave you 10,000 extra simoleans, in the final game we took this out.
Should we...
1) leave it the way it is, no cheating.
2) restore the '+' key, cheating is an accepted part of golf! (I'll hear about that one)
3) allow the '+', but flag the game so that you can tell a cheat was used.

- Sid

__________________________________________________
__

	04-02-2002 12:07									#2
	golly. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's pretty cool. But then again, Sid didn't actually WORK on Civ3 (besides lending his name to the box), so I wouldn't actually expect him to be hanging out here.


ER

	04-02-2002 12:08									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yes, the evidence of Sid's lack of involvement in Civ3 have been apparent for quite some time. Those of us who saw it earlier and were ridiculed for it are finally being vindicated.

That said, SidGolf is better than Civ3.

Yes, I said that.

	04-02-2002 12:48									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

While golf games aren't my cup of tea, I'm happy to see that Sid takes some personal intererst in a product he's developed himself.

The only question is; does the supposed Firaxis corporate clamp-down on information about upcoming patches not apply to Sid? Or do the good folks at Firaxis belive that the SimGolf audience is so much more mature that it can handle the expectations -- while the civ fan community can't?

The more I read, the less I understand.

	04-02-2002 12:57									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Rhino:

I didn't expect that Sid was working on Civ at the same level he was working on Simgolf/other projects, but after I played a couple of Civ games, I started wondering if he had even PLAYED the new Civ, much less contributed. Even so, I was still sure that Civ would be fixed up (not because of Sid personally, all "gaming god" notions aside, but still...) I'm really starting to doubt that now.

The thing is, I seriously doubt he's ever come here to see how the public liked the new game with his name on the box, but think how nice it would be if he were able to make a similar post regarding Civ.


Yin:

Some people catch on more quickly than others. I'm just glad I didn't jump in and start arguing with you guys. Saves me from having to admit I was wrong... err...


Regards

	04-02-2002 13:21									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper The only question is; does the supposed Firaxis corporate clamp-down on information about upcoming patches not apply to Sid?

*cough* doublestandards *cough*
Would it be too much to ask for their PR policy to be consistent??

Strange turn of events, thats all I can say.

	04-02-2002 13:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

LOL Sadly, we all missed something when Sid turned over the keys to the Ferrari to people who do their best work in Pintos. Then again, it's the mysteries of life that keep us on our toes, eh?

	04-02-2002 13:24									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: PR policy

Ahhhh! LOL! Stop it! You're killing me!!!

	04-02-2002 14:32									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

so, an EA-published game has an official site with an official EA-run(and EA-moderated of course) forum(to which you have to register in order to just view) and on that (official) forum Sid is posting

lets forget that support, marketing and promotion "belong" to the publisher

lets forget that simgolf is on the market for about a week, instead of 3 months

lets forget that EA on the sims titles has a totally different approach to the internet than infogrames

lets forget that simgolf had 1/10th of the advertisment and the hype of civ3


you are right, firaxis has double standards

	04-02-2002 14:43									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: that's right, he's there, asking questions about what people want in a patch and generally showing interest in hearing fans' ideas.

and yes, you are right again, <A href=/forums/thread/37597/1.html thread</a> and <A href=/forums/thread/37901/1.html thread</a> were not made by firaxians.

firaxis is only asking for suggestions for simgolf

	04-02-2002 15:15									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ahh, but Mark, I didn't comment on what Firaxis was doing. I'm sure that Jeff, Soren, Dan ect. want to make the best game they can, but that's not what I was bringing up... I just don't know what they're capable of/allowed to do at all. I do get the sinking feeling that they are capable of a lot, but not allowed to do a lot.

I was only talking about what SID was doing, and it doesn't seem to be Civ 3. Not to put too fine a point on it, on my game box, the "Sid Meier" part is above the "Civilization III" part, albeit in much smaller print.

BTW Why did you move this thread to some obscure forum? You don't think that people on the Civ 3 general forum would be interested in what Sid is doing? I mean, Sid is the most recognized and prominent name associated with the Civilization series after all... I'm sure Civ fans would be interested.

Maybe you're worried some serious Firaxis bashing is about to take place?

Regards

	04-02-2002 19:21									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nice try Mark. Still, you cannot change the fact that lots of folk are going to remember that Sid did nothing while the Civ series crashed and burned.

	04-02-2002 19:43									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ahhh, out fiddling while Rome burns at home. Perfect. This is great to see. I say nothing about the Firaxans that do post here. I don't play my Civ3 anymore so I don't really mind. It's just that I have never seen a post by Sid here. Markos, does he have a login?

-FMK.

	04-02-2002 20:54									#14
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh It's just that I have never seen a post by Sid here. Markos, does he have a login?

no he doesnt. when he had something to say, he sent it to us via mail(brian&co leaving firaxis case)
if my memory is correct he didnt even have a login on the owo forums. i wonder if that means that he had nothing to do with smac as well? hell, if we follow this line of thought, brian didnt have much to do with the game either

[serious mode=on]
the use of "Sid Meier" in all firaxis titles leads me to believe that firaxis has realised the marketing power of it. if you were Sid Meier, partially owning firaxis, with a history of 20 years making computer games, would you simply "not care" if the next game with your name on is rubbish or not?


as for the thread, when you compare two games, the thread belongs here

	04-02-2002 22:47									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Mark's being a tad too defensive.

SimGolf is an odd game. I never liked The Sims, I never liked Golf, I certainly do not like SimGolf.

	04-02-2002 23:20									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Teeba Ahh, but Mark, I didn't comment on what Firaxis was doing. I'm sure that Jeff, Soren, Dan ect. want to make the best game they can, but that's not what I was bringing up... I just don't know what they're capable of/allowed to do at all. I do get the sinking feeling that they are capable of a lot, but not allowed to do a lot

I agree on this point. Civ 3 is (mainly, I think) Soren's baby, and I think Civ 3 is also Soren's first world wide published game, so I really believe that he would like to make the best Civ ever if he could! Give Civ 3 a break, will ya? Despite Civ 3 suck in several subjects, I have to agree that it's nevertheless a professional work, not something that a wannabe group of programmers/artists could do.

	05-02-2002 01:38									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG no he doesnt. when he had something to say, he sent it to us via mail(brian&co leaving firaxis case) if my memory is correct he didnt even have a login on the owo forums. i wonder if that means that he had nothing to do with smac as well? hell, if we follow this line of thought, brian didnt have much to do with the game either [serious mode=on] the use of "Sid Meier" in all firaxis titles leads me to believe that firaxis has realised the marketing power of it. if you were Sid Meier, partially owning firaxis, with a history of 20 years making computer games, would you simply "not care" if the next game with your name on is rubbish or not? as for the thread, when you compare two games, the thread belongs here

Point taken, but it would still be nice if Sid were more involved with the community, although it's not imperitive.

See, sure Sid Meier would care if Civ3 were "rubbish." Trouble is that while it's a good game it's not everything most fans had reasonably hoped it would be. I would feel better about the future of Civ if it looked like Sid were more involved. Even if the Firaxis team made all the changes without Sid's input, having his power and influence more strongly behind them would help a lot. I'm sure that the money men at Firaxas/Infogames take Sid's word more seriously than they would somebody else's.

	05-02-2002 14:52									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MarkG no he doesnt. when he had something to say, he sent it to us via mail(brian&co leaving firaxis case) if my memory is correct he didnt even have a login on the owo forums. i wonder if that means that he had nothing to do with smac as well? hell, if we follow this line of thought, brian didnt have much to do with the game either [serious mode=on] the use of "Sid Meier" in all firaxis titles leads me to believe that firaxis has realised the marketing power of it. if you were Sid Meier, partially owning firaxis, with a history of 20 years making computer games, would you simply "not care" if the next game with your name on is rubbish or not? as for the thread, when you compare two games, the thread belongs here

Actually, it's common knowledge that Sid had very little to do with SMAC. Brian's role is debatable. Unless you follow theFiraxians .