05-02-2002 05:26									#1
	AI, does it cheat? (long) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I’m aware of the luck factor in battles; in fact, I like it. If the result of every battle were pre-ordained, the game would be boring. However, there are times when I can’t avoid feeling like the AI is cheating. Like, when I had a walled town defended by two spearmen and a swordsman, and it gets attacked by three Persian warriors, and they take it without receiving a single hit! Or when I was invaded by a horde of Egyptian War Chariots, although I was somewhat outnumbered I had veteran knights and pikemen. In the first couple of turns things went as one would expect, with a clear predominance of my superior units, but all of a sudden the AI began to win almost every battle, even at incredible odds. My defenses melted away and I had to quit that game, and I had the distinct sensation of the AI “getting mad and giving me a lesson”. Have these spurts of invincibility been built into the design to spice things up, or have I been playing too much...
And what about wonders? Suppose I start the Great Library, and then get a notice that Greece is building it in Athens. I take a peek using espionage and see that there’s no problem, as it will take 75 turns to complete and Athens has a rotten shield production, while my city will get it in 21 turns. Then one or two turns before I get it, Pop! Athens builds the Great Library. Supposedly, you can’t rush wonders. OK so maybe he used a leader. That would explain it once or twice, but it happens again and again, even during the same game and while there are no wars going on to generate leaders. How does the AI rush wonders? I wonder...
Does corruption affect the AI as it does the human player? My far away cities are practically useless because of smothering corruption, so when he plants that ridiculous city in the middle of my empire and light years away from his capital, I figure it will amount to nothing. But before you know, it is growing and culturally expanding and spouting out units and workers. I take a peek and it has temple, library, colosseum, etc. How!!?? OK he could rush some stuff by buying at an outrageous cost, but (unless the AI cheats in falsifying information during face-to-face transactions) I’ve noticed that most AI players are perpetually broke. Besides, it also occurs in Despotism, where you can only rush things by killing people. Go figure...
And how oh how does the AI produce those droves of settlers each with its spearman escort? And all the while producing wonders too, and lots’a military units. At Regent level, I can barely keep up by making as many settlers as possible and sending them out unescorted. And if I concentrate too much on that, the AI players start grabbing all the wonders. Incidentally, trying to out-settle the AI is what I find most challenging—and many times frustrating—in the game.
And what about teleportation? The AI sends settlers+escorts into your territory, obviously bound for some piece of unsettled territory which you nonetheless consider rightfully yours. You will have none of it and tell him begone, only to find that after the abject apologies, his units are magically teleported to their destination, precisely what you wanted to avoid! But, if you try the same trick on him, your units are always sent back to where they started... Is this cheating or what...
Trade is another bother. Although not a cheat in the strict sense, it is very unfair to the human player. Annoying to say the least. You almost always have to give more than you get. Caesar comes up and offers a Territory Map, in exchange for your Territory Map plus Monarchy. If you suggest something more even, like he add Pottery to the deal, he feels insulted! If he doesn’t want the deal fine, but why should he be “insulted” by what is obviously a fairer transaction? I am insulted! And adding injury to insult, that traitor Foreign Advisor seems to agree with Caesar’s demands... The Military Advisor, now THAT is a guy you can count on... ;-)

	05-02-2002 06:18									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah. The game needs some sort of balancing for human players who occasionally needs mistakes, and THEY NEED TO PATCH THE ****ING AI. THE AI CHEATS MORE THAN THE ****ING DIABLO COMMUNITY DID BACK WHEN ANYONE PLAYED DIABLO.
Sorry for the outburst of anger and vitriol, it's just that I lost a war because I pressed the wrong button and sent cavalry that would have made the difference onto unroaded territory. Whereas the AI can make the dumbest decisions possible and still win.
Plus, the way that after the game you "win" or "lose" is retarded. Losing isn't not winning. We're talking a game involving several countries. I lost the game even though I fought my way up from 12th place, and I lost at the end of the game, just because I hadn't conquered the whole ****ing world.
Bah.
It sucks to sink hours and hours into a game just to be told at the end that you lost.

	05-02-2002 06:27									#3
	Got spare money?

Foot, instead of ranting and whining about the "unbalanced game" in the general forum you should better go to the strategy forum and learn some techniques how to play this game. Look for Vel's strategy threads, that's a good basis. They are pretty old, so don't look only at the first page for it.

	05-02-2002 06:42									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

caralampio, yes, the AI cheats pretty much, but not all what you write is real cheating.

In the battle results it probably does not cheat, you just got a bad random seed. There will be as much fights you would win against a superior AI unit. But the difference is: You probably don't try to send a warrior to fight with a spearman. If you did, it would win as often as the AI warriors against your spearmen.

The AI can see all your buildings and it plans wonder buildings, so that it will end it before you. You also could peek in the AI's cities, after you have am embassy, and adjust your building.

The AI suffers as much from corruption and barbarians as the human player, there is no difference.

The wandering settlers are a real pain, that's true, but instead of asking the AI to leave (it will blue-eyed say, it will, and continue walking), you could row up some mounted units and block the settlers, while your own settlers rush to the AI's destination.

The AI trades maps usually fair. If they want something from you for map change, they have probably to offer more tiles you did not explore yet than vice versa. You should haggle and not give in what they want. Often about 10 or 20 gold is all you need to pay, not a tech. By the way, if you play expansionist, or have discovered Astronomy or Navigation first, you can sell your map to the AI as well, and it pays as much for unknown areas as it demands from you.

	05-02-2002 07:27									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's just that this game has crushed my soul. When I finished the second game I played, after much toil and after conquering 2 civilizations, it deemed me pathetic, I cried.
AND I CAN'T STOP PLAYING! I'M TRAPPED!

	05-02-2002 07:40									#6
	Put an end to popups!

As far as rushing wonders goes...
You have given no evidence that the ai unfairly rushes wonders. It is wuite possible through population growth or terrein implrovement to overtake someone else in wonder race.

	05-02-2002 07:47									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I got 3 destroyers and 2 battleships sunk by some English Man-o-War while I was attacking them. I just have no clue how those wooden ship is capable of sinking my battleships. Note that, I changed my Battleships attack strength to 30, and Man-o-War's defense strength to 5. How did they managed to win under the overwhelming odd is a mystery. I don't think I can ever do that good.
And, why did they give every unit 3 hit points? Stronger modern units should get more hit points than older units.

	05-02-2002 19:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't know if the AI does this, but it's quite possible to "rush" a wonder by having workers join the city up to its max size.

	06-02-2002 08:44									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Ever notice. . .

As soon as I reach a new tech advance, ANOTHER civ immediately starts building the Wonder associated with that advance?? Happens to me all too often.

Yep. As soon as I reach Theology, someobody starts building the Sistine Chapel. As soon as I reach Astronomy someone else starts building Copernicus' Observatory. And on and on.

No, I never share techs.

That cheating AI!!

	06-02-2002 09:00									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Maybe the AI just steals the tech... you can steal from the AI, after all...

	06-02-2002 09:40									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Encomium Ever notice. . . As soon as I reach a new tech advance, ANOTHER civ immediately starts building the Wonder associated with that advance?? Happens to me all too often. Yep. As soon as I reach Theology, someobody starts building the Sistine Chapel. As soon as I reach Astronomy someone else starts building Copernicus' Observatory. And on and on. No, I never share techs. That cheating AI!!

Here is what happens. You are only notified that a civ is building an wonder when you too have the ability to build that wonder. i.e. Another civ reaches Astronomy and starts builing C.O. Several turns later you reach Astronomy. Your advisor will then tell you that the whoevers are building C.O. wherever. Notice that they have already been building it, but you just learned about it. It's that simple and no cheating involved.

	06-02-2002 09:59									#12
	Tired of ads?

Forget about ai cheating. It is all speculation until we get a real editor with cheat mode.