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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:12
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Hundreds of suggestions have already been posted, but we have to limit ourselves or the game will be unplayable  Hence my effort to list the most important ones. Some Civ II techs could be left out, too, to compensate. Here goes in arbitrary order:
[1] The Mill
<- engineering
-> polders, ecology
[2] Printing
<- literacy, chemistry
-> labor union, telecommunication
[3] Socialism
<- communism
-> guerillas, labor union
[4] Liberalism
<- the corporation
-> multinational, human rights
[5] Human Rights
<- labor union, liberalism
-> activists, "Abolishment of Slavery", ecology
[6] Ecology
<- recycling, the mill,
-> windmill, environmentalism
[7] Telecommunication
<- printing, electronics
-> television network, rocketry
[8] Artificial Intelligence
<- computers, psychology
-> space colonies
[9] Pharmaceutics
<- medicine, chemistry
-> "Contraception", genetic engineering
[10] Psychology
<- theology, tactics
-> children's creche, artificial intelligence
Tell me if you think something should be replaced!
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud on 09-13-2000 09:55 PM
Could you please expand on some of your ideas?
and describe what exactly they will do.
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Sure !
Polders = allows settlers to change water into (grass)land and vice versa
Guerillas = units, like the Partisans in Civ2 (the Guerilla Warfare tech can be dumped, the line communism-gw-labor union in Civ2 is all wrong)
Multinational = city improvement, increases the yield of trade routes at both ends
Activists = units, uncontrolled by the player but with flag, will randomly occupy squares within the radius of foreign cities without causing an international incident, if that civ has not yet discovered human rights. After the discovery of ecology, activists will also occupy and possibly pillage squares near cities (even your own  ) that generate pollution
Abolishment of Slavery = wonder, makes all extra-unhappy citizens in the world merely unhappy and stops Slavery - see elsewhere - for everybody
Windmill = city improvement, gives a set amount of shields that do not generate pollution
Television Network = city improvement, gives some happy citizens (the effect of your collossea and cathedrals - and yes, also Mike's - should run out upon the discovery of telecommunication)
Space Colonies = small colonies within the solar system (city map only, terrain improvements already in place but no farmland), founded by settlers, cities no larger than size 8 but with a double yield
Contraception = wonder, changes the effect of "We Love" days from growth into an extra arrow for every civ that has discovered Pharmaceutics
Children's Creche = city improvement (SMAC), reduces the number of colums to fill for city growth
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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I think there should be special technologies that make certain city improvements obsolete. For example the advance "Leisue Industry" makes coliseums obsolete and you'd have to build "sport stadions" in your city to get the same effect. Or "Libraries" with the advance of "Printing Press" are something probably every town will have automatically and aren't built anymore by "public effort".
This idea is somehow already realized with the barracks, but it could be expanded on a larger scale.
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Some suggestions:
Philosophy+Monotheism->Enlightenment
Jewish faith is monotheistic but not a "prophetic" religion, speaking to ALL MANKIND. The advance "Enlightenment" could make "Missionary"-Units possible or more effective.
I'd say "Liberalism" and "Human Rights" are older than "Labor Union" and "Corporation".
So my suggestion for the tech-path would be rather:
Economy+Printing Press -> Liberalism
Enlightenment+Liberalism -> Human Rights
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yes, Fascism is needed.
I'd suggest Mass Production and Communism as prerequisites.
Fascism was anti-communist but had communist elements and it is certainly a child of a society with mass production.
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OK, you wanted a challenge. Some of those techs I suggest are almost identic with yours, but OK, here I go:
1. Mechanics
simply replaces Invention, I don't like that name.
2. Printing Press
prereqs: Literacy, Mechanics
leads to: Bureaucracy, Modern Science
3. Mercantilism
prereqs: Feudalism, Banking (I have the german version, don't know how this is really named)
leads to: Industrialization, Economy
4. Nationalism
prereqs: Mercantilism, Feudalism
leads to: Conscription
5. Bureaucracy
prereqs: Printing Press, Mercantilism
leads to: Industrialization, Conscription
6. Modern Science
prereqs: Printing Press, University
leads to: Chemistry, ToG, Pharmaceutics
7. Pharmaceutics
prereqs: Modern Science, Medicine
leads to: GE
8. Electronic Warfare
prereqs: Mobile Warfare, Computer
leads to: Stealth Technic
9. Leisure Industry
prereqs: Mass Media, Democracy
leads to: nothing
10. Mass Media
prereqs: Radio, Mass Production
leads to: Leisure Industry
Sorry, I'm too busy now to point out effects or why I decided for which prereqs, if there are questions I'll become more detailed.
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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:12
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[quote]Originally posted by wernazuma on 09-29-2000 03:32 PM
OK, you wanted a challenge. Some of those techs I suggest are almost identic with yours, but OK, here I go:[/quote}
Finally! Thank you, Wernazuma. Cool list, but some comments.
1. Mechanics
> simply replaces Invention, I don't like that name.
Good point, there has always been invention after all. A replacement shouldn't count as a slot though, so you can have another pick
3. Mercantilism
I'm hesitant about adding another economics tech, I don't think this gives much extra over Economics and The Corporation.
4. Nationalism
This is a good one, almost made my own cut but I could not drop Socialism or Liberalism. Maybe it could simply replace Conscription, which is not much of an "advance" IMHO.
5. Bureaucracy
Hehe, this is certainly no advance, but going backwards! It is represented in Civ II by Corruption.
6. Modern Science
This needs some explanation.
8. Electronic Warfare
Hmm, in my a possible alternative to Stealth, which has been much overrated. Can't see how it LEADS to Stealth. A unit for this tech: the Apache Helicopter.
One drawback though, an overlap with Rocketry.
9. Leisure Industry
> leads to: nothing
Great insight 
Problem is, there has been leisure industry since the dawn of human civilization, so I don't see where it would fit in.
10. Mass Media
Alternative to my "Telecommunication", which I prefer since it's broader and easier to place in the tech tree.
Thanks again! I'm working on a complete tech tree now and your ideas have certainly helped.
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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Stuff2
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quote:
Originally posted by Ribannah on 09-16-2000 10:18 AM
The Opera House entertained only a small elite (as opposed to the Roman Colosseum and the Olympic Games), and as such had little influence on the course of civilization. The same could, to a lesser extent perhaps, be said about Classical Music.
If a case could be made for a music wonder in civ III,
I think it would have to be "Woodstock".
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Actually, during the 19 th century "classical music" was the music for the citizens. If you lived in a fairly big city at that time you where probably listening to classical music beacouse it was that periods 'pop'-music. On the other hand, most people did not live in the cities. And bye the end of that century many workers from the 'uncultivated' rural population had become a major part of the citizens bringing there own musical tradition with them. And then as classical music became more experimental and hard to understand the folk-music, and jazz took it's place as the music for the citizens. And we can see the same thing happen again in the fiftees, as jazz was starting to get experimental and hard to understand Elvis arrived with new music that was cool and yet simple.
But this was not my point, my point was that even though in a way the classical music hasn't been known bye anyone it has strongly influenced those people living in the cities, and during history it is the citizens who have played the biggest role. Farmers has ofcourse played a significant role but their role has almost been the same all the time. The cities has been the place where ideologies has been born. And it's in the cities most social and technologic progress has been made. On the other hand, classical music today has since long ago lost it power to spellbound the masses.
I'll give an example: Lizth (greatest pianist of the 19 th century). When he gave consertos women in the audiance fainted when they saw him, Paganini (greatest violinist of that period) was considered getting help from the devil when he played (he spellbounded his audiance and so did Lizth). They where actually that periods 'Pop-heroes'.
I think a city improvement called 'consert hall' or 'Opera house' could be included. And I am sure that in 50 years from now, pop and rock will be played in those places (and most of the youths will be listening to things that we are unable to imagine).
Classical music is just a label, in fact music has constantly changed both in function and expression since the dawn of history, the only difference with todays music is that the changes are faster (but maybe a listener from 2500 AD wont hear the difference from the sixtees rock or the ninethees discomusic).
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SWPIGWANG The Second
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Modern Science = Scientific Method?
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14-09-2000 03:03
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