08-02-2002 18:13									#31
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2 is definitely UK. I can't get the 1st one to scan too well with the US anthem, but that doesn't mean anything...

	08-02-2002 19:54									#32
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I think the fact that Russia reinstated Soviet National Anthem as their national hymn was just a clear evidence of how weak the russian nationalism is. It's like openly admitting that Soviets knew better, and it's not going to help gov to build new Russia. Obviously though, Soviet Anthem was great, Russian Anthem was poor but to take back the Soviet Anthem? They might as well change their flag...the older one had more character anyway!

	08-02-2002 20:23									#33
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quote: They might as well change their flag...the older one had more character anyway!

Bad idea.
It would be too similar to the chinese flag and that's a fashion no no.

	10-02-2002 15:20									#34
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quote: Bad idea.

As was the hymn. Might as well change the flag...this country has an identity crisis

	11-02-2002 01:15									#35
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I'm surprised that none of my zealous Israeli brothers have suggested discussing the Israeli anthem...

	11-02-2002 01:20									#36
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Now when you mentioned it...

I think we should change it. It was a great anthem for the Zionist Movement but the words talk about something that already happened.
But I dont know to what we should change it. Some support Jerusalem of Gold, it's a good one, but it doesnt fit to be an anthem IMO.

	11-02-2002 01:20									#37
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IIRC, the Seychelles has an extremely good national anthem. The words are probably crap, but the tune is fantastic.

	11-02-2002 01:53									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Now when you mentioned it... I think we should change it. It was a great anthem for the Zionist Movement but the words talk about something that already happened. But I dont know to what we should change it. Some support Jerusalem of Gold, it's a good one, but it doesnt fit to be an anthem IMO.

With all the historical baggage associated with it, it would be hard to give up, even if the words aren't as appropriate anymore.

	11-02-2002 02:07									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Now when you mentioned it... I think we should change it. It was a great anthem for the Zionist Movement but the words talk about something that already happened. But I dont know to what we should change it. Some support Jerusalem of Gold, it's a good one, but it doesnt fit to be an anthem IMO.

The best replacement I can think of is ‡Á?†Îφȯ‡Ï which isn't neccessarily anthem material either, though it is a pretty good song, which would have the added plus of mollifying Salah Tarif.

	11-02-2002 02:13									#40
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All I see in the place of the Hebrew letters is rectangles. So you better write it in English.

	11-02-2002 02:55									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Eli All I see in the place of the Hebrew letters is rectangles. So you better write it in English.

achenu kol yisrael.

	11-02-2002 03:12									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Eli All I see in the place of the Hebrew letters is rectangles. So you better write it in English.

Interestingly, I see:

Double-Dagger Capital-A-Acute Question-Mark Capital-A-Circumflex Dagger Capital-I-Circumflex Capital-I-Aumlaut Dagger Capital-E-Grave Overscore Double-Dagger Capital-I-Aumlaut

I really have no idea why I wrote that.

	11-02-2002 03:47									#43
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This is the Norwegian national anthem


English translation

Yes, We Love This Country


Yes, we love this country

Which rises up,

Rugged and weathered, above the sea,

With its thousands of homes.

Love it, love it and think

About our mothers and fathers

And the saga of past ages

That sends dreams to our earth,

And the saga of past ages

That sends dreams, sends dreams to our earth.







Norseman, in house and cabin,

Thank your great God!

It was His will to protect the country

Although things looked dark.

While fathers fought

And mothers cried,

Our Lord quietly opened the way

So that we won our right.

Our Lord quietly opened the way

So that we won, we won our right.







Yes, we love this country

Which rises up,

Rugged and weathered, above the sea,

With its thousands of homes.

And as our fathers' struggle has raised it

From distress to victory,

We also, when called upon,

Will strike a blow for its peace.

We also, when called upon,

Will strike a blow for its peace, its peace.



Lyrics: Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson, 1859
Music: Rikard Nordraak, 1863
>Adopted: 1864

Edit: Found a translation I liked better + added music link

Last edited by Lars-E on 11-02-2002 at 04:05

	12-02-2002 01:28									#44
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Well, Russia doesn`t have problems with identity, based on the anthem change.

Russia was always the dominant nation in the USSR, so taking the old Soviet anthem as the Russian one is in no way denying the nationalism - in fact, it was the most nationalistic move of all suggested

If we take a look at my country - Ukraine:
We have our own anthem for 10 years. I still can`t remember the words. However, I know Soviet one by heart still

And I think, about half of the adult population here don`t even know our anthem`s melody, but will sing you the Soviet one without thinking. That`s cause that one was firmly kicked into our heads in school

	12-02-2002 02:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Natan achenu kol yisrael.

Eh? Link please.

	12-02-2002 02:18									#46
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G. A:
I know Soviet culture was mainly influenced by Russian, but it was a different nation. The fact that Soviet Anthem was reinstated just proves how weak the Russian culture is and how strong Soviet culture still is. Russian is not equivalent to Soviet Union, they're two nations based on completely different ideologies, although cultures naturally resemble one another.

	13-02-2002 00:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Shai-Hulud G. A: I know Soviet culture was mainly influenced by Russian, but it was a different nation. The fact that Soviet Anthem was reinstated just proves how weak the Russian culture is and how strong Soviet culture still is. Russian is not equivalent to Soviet Union, they're two nations based on completely different ideologies, although cultures naturally resemble one another.

Nothing to do with culture at all. The Soviet anthem represents nothing else, but the Imperial Ambition

And Russian culture... How can it be strong? And how can it dominate? Russia is still a huge multinational empire with Russians not being a clear majority there. So, your implication about weak culture has no point here at all. The "national" identity thing can only be used in a country with clean national majority. And don`t give US as an example. Cause the 50 states weren`t conquered by Washington DC over centuries, like the most of Russian territory was by small kingdom around Moscow

	13-02-2002 00:10									#48
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Also, there was no Soviet nation, that you refer to. Unlike USA, the Soviet Union actually failed to unite the 200 something large ethnical groups on it`s territory into one powerful nation, and that`s why it fell.

	13-02-2002 03:52									#49
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G.A, I know that the Soviet Union treated The Ukraine harshly for many years. Even in the fifties The Ukraine was bombed by Soviet planes. There has been civil war conditions there.

So there was much unrest in The Ukraine and probably the place where there was most organized resistance against the atrocities of the communists.

One downer is strong fascist movements though.

I'm reading a book called "The Black Book of Communism - Crimes Terror Repression" (1997) which is based on newly open Soviet archives - 1990s. It's very interesting to find out that Lenin was a murderous thug. His own signed orders proves it.

I have been to Belarus which comes across as poor and grey, but The Ukraine is supposed to be worse off. The ppl of Belarus are very suspicious of foreigners - westerners? Their neighboring countries are not very fond of Belarus. Due to the dictator? And you find the mafia here as well. Who? The guyz with the money.

	13-02-2002 11:07									#50
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quote: Nothing to do with culture at all. The Soviet anthem represents nothing else, but the Imperial Ambition

Anthem has nothing to do with culture at all?

quote: And Russian culture... How can it be strong? And how can it dominate? Russia is still a huge multinational empire with Russians not being a clear majority there

True. Although the Soviet culture was still stronger than Russian despite of the fact that it was mostly created by Russians. So, it's possible to have a culture stronger than Russian - there was one before it. Of course, the Soviet culture never was THAT strong either, just a lot more influential than Russian.

quote: Unlike USA, the Soviet Union actually failed to unite the 200 something large ethnical groups on it`s territory into one powerful nation, and that`s why it fell.

Failure of planned economics and dictatorian oppression might have something to do with it as well. Ethnic groups made it impossible for USSR to fully integrate but for all we know - it would have fell even if the integration had happened. And the minorities never really threatened Soviet power, it always found solutions to silence dissents.

	13-02-2002 15:11									#51
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quote: Originally posted by G.A Nothing to do with culture at all. The Soviet anthem represents nothing else, but the Imperial Ambition And Russian culture... How can it be strong? And how can it dominate? Russia is still a huge multinational empire with Russians not being a clear majority there. So, your implication about weak culture has no point here at all. The "national" identity thing can only be used in a country with clean national majority. And don`t give US as an example. Cause the 50 states weren`t conquered by Washington DC over centuries, like the most of Russian territory was by small kingdom around Moscow

The Soviet anthem primarily symbolizes continuance of the Russian history.

You doubt the strength of the Russian culture?? It is even more odd to hear this from a citizen of a country that is overwhelmed by the Russian culture and struggles for its own identity.

BTW, there are about 80% of ethnic Russians in Russia. But I don't see your point. As any other major culture, the Russian culture is created and reproduced by and attracts people of various ethnic backgrounds. A kind of "cultural imperialism".

quote: Originally posted by Shai-Hulud True. Although the Soviet culture was still stronger than Russian despite of the fact that it was mostly created by Russians. So, it's possible to have a culture stronger than Russian - there was one before it. Of course, the Soviet culture never was THAT strong either, just a lot more influential than Russian.

I don't see the point in contraposing the Soviet and Russian cultures. The Russian culture is something that originated many centuries ago and passed through several major periods of its development. The Soviet period was one of those. In this sense, the best of the Soviet culture is now a part of the Russian culture.

BTW, the Soviet culture was not so bad. It was somewhat one-sided due to various taboos. But in what was allowed, it was really great.

quote: Originally posted by Lars-E G.A, I know that the Soviet Union treated The Ukraine harshly for many years. Even in the fifties The Ukraine was bombed by Soviet planes. There has been civil war conditions there. So there was much unrest in The Ukraine and probably the place where there was most organized resistance against the atrocities of the communists.

What you are writing about concerns Western Ukraine, a relatively small piece of land annexed by the USSR following WW2 and "given" to Ukraine. Therefore, Ukraine as a whole was not a victim here. It was rather a beneficiary. What you wrote is therefore misleading. It overvictimizes Ukraine and overdemonizes Russia.

	14-02-2002 00:44									#52
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80% ethnical Russians is of course bollocks

It`s the same as here - just in Soviet times it was "fashionable" to write your nationality as "Russian" if in doubt

I call myself "Russian" too, though only quarter of my ancestors are actually Russian

Under "culture" I meant not that culture, that you mean, but what the foreign guys meant

And who is overwhelmed? You only talk about Eastern Ukraine, just like that guy only talked about Western one

Also the way which that "overwhelm" was done - simply moving Ukrainians to Siberia and settling other peoples to their place is not exactly the "cultural influence"

They can`t understand the anthem issue here, cause Russia never had truly "national" anthem. Only "State" ones

Oh, and the main point - isn`t Russia really demoniac???

	14-02-2002 00:57									#53
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Weeeeeeee, we have an influx of Russians here!
Do we open a Russian thread?

	14-02-2002 01:12									#54
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quote: The Soviet period was one of those. In this sense, the best of the Soviet culture is now a part of the Russian culture.

Russian culture integrated into the Soviet culture and after the dissolution of USSR the Soviet culture integrated to "newly found" Russian culture. These cultures have a lot of similarities but I dare not to speak of them as one. The Soviet culture was designed and enforced by the party, although greatly influenced by Russia culture. CPSU's mission was to create a new socialist man and such project demanded a socialist culture which took over traditional culture. I think Russia has a major identity crisis and because of it a decayed sense of moral. Much because Soviet culture was enforced and not independently created by the people themselves. Russians were left only with the remnants of bygone national culture when USSR fell.

quote: BTW, the Soviet culture was not so bad. It was somewhat one-sided due to various taboos. But in what was allowed, it was really great.

I'm not so sure about that

	14-02-2002 02:29									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Weeeeeeee, we have an influx of Russians here! Do we open a Russian thread?

Isn`t this one already? Discussing national anthem, who else has such thread!

Then the "Russia is evil" and "Commies are the reason of all the world`s troubles" threads will follow soon