09-09-2000 09:37									#1
	J.S.Bach's Cathedral Get a bigger avatar today!

If you have built Michaelangelo's Chapel which has the
effect of a cathedral in each of your cities, does
J.S.Bach's Cathedral still double this effect? Or does
it only work if you built each cathedral individually?
I have a game with democracy as my gov, and building
J.S.Bach's after I already had Mich's Chapel didnt seem
to do much.

	09-09-2000 09:50									#2
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err... sorry that I have to deceive you my dear, but... we're talking about Civ2 here, and in Civ2 J.S.Bach's Cathedral makes two unhappy citizens content on the same continent as the building city.

I think the effect of J. S. Bach's Cathedral is the same in Civ1, so I have no clue why you think that it affects the Cathedrals...

	08-09-2000 23:02									#3
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Andz, the documentation saya that JSB only works on the same continent, but it works for all your cities on all continents.

	09-09-2000 00:05									#5
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whatever, I think that the thread question is answered.

also, thank you for the information (that Bach's works on all continents)

	09-09-2000 01:00									#6
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I know Paul knows, but you may not all the wonders that claim to work on one continent only actually work on all continents.

Which is nice too.

	09-09-2000 01:06									#7
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Another very nice thing about Bach's is that its effect is applied in the last step of the happiness calculation. This means that if you have a unit in the field under Democracy, Bach's will erase the unhappiness due to that unit. Mike's is applied earlier and will not cure happiness from troops in the field.

	09-09-2000 02:16									#9
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Andz83 - how about:

No wonder's effect is limited to one continent.

The manual book is wrong.

	09-09-2000 03:37									#10
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And i'm sure thats a big surprise to us all

	09-09-2000 04:27									#11
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You try and be helpful....

So its a little garballed, it only lacks one stop though, so I think a whole post to criticise it is a little much. I know that most of us know the continent thing wasn't implemented/ doesn't work/ whatEVER but given some ignorance of this had been revealed early in the thread I didn't think reitereating it would do any harm. :P

Whatever became of Ottok? Did he get fed up with being ignored and abused in equal measure?
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited September 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited September 08, 2000).]

	09-09-2000 13:27									#12
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sorry, john, I didn't really want to criticize you...

	09-09-2000 14:52									#13
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Thats OK, I wasn't really looking for an apology

	10-09-2000 03:32									#14
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Actually Andreas, I think you owe an apology to Caligastia for replying in an unfriendly fashion to his first or second post ever on Apolyton. It was a fair question, and one that confuses many civers - including me. Since English is your second (at least) language you may not have intended to sound that way - but that is one Apolytoner that may not return because of the way that you responded. Be nice to people!!

	11-09-2000 18:27									#15
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I was excited to see so many replies to my post,
but nobody really answered my question.
Am I the only one who realised that JSB has a
different effect in civ2 as opposed to civ1?
JSB used to be my favorite wonder in civ1 but
in civ2 Michaelangelo's Chapel is my new fave
due to JSB DOUBLES THE EFFECTS OF CATHEDRALS IN CIV2!
Can someone back me up on this...?

	11-09-2000 20:56									#16
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now I'm really confused! does JSB really increase the Cathedral's effect in Civ2? I thought it didn't, therefor my (perhaps rude) reply...

and no, it wasn't meant to be a rude or harsh or whatever reply... I just didn't know that... well... JSB increses the Cathedral's effect... and I'm still not so sure about it...

	12-09-2000 09:15									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think Caligastia is confusing cause and effect here. In one sence, it does, since JSB needs theology (increases cathedrals from 3 to 4) and makes 2 additional unhappy people content. The overall effect of Theology + JSB (without communism) is to double cathedrals from making 6 unhappies content vs 3 if you already have a cathedral.

But since you don't need cathedrals for JSB to work, and theology increases cathedrals by 1 even without JSB, everyone else seems to be rather lost as to what was asked...

So, no JSB doesn't double cathedrals, but if you build JSB very shortly after getting its needed tech, it can appear that way.

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

	13-09-2000 09:03									#19
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Well, I dont have the manual but when I go into the
Civilopedia and look up JSB it says:
Effects oubles the effect of Cathedrals in all cities.

Maybe my version is screwed up or my civilopedia is
wrong!?


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	13-09-2000 09:05									#20
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Just to expand on what Dave V said, JSB is unique in that it is the only wonder that can undo some of the effects of military unhappiness: one unit in Democracy w/o Police Station, two in Republic or two in Democracy with Police Station.

An interesting side effect of this is if you have JSB, no size 1 or 2 city under Rep or Dem can EVER go into disorder. If you build a city on an iron mountain and develop a mined hill, forest or peat square, rush the factory and a power plant, you can support around 16 units and all can be "in the field" or Bombers/missiles/Helicopters - all with no unhappiness.

	13-09-2000 04:19									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

i just checked my Civ II version 1.07 as well as my copy of Civ I. Both only say that JSB decreases unhappy people on the continent by 2 per city.

Incedentally, if you want to fix it, you could always go into the pedia.txt and change what is written. Might want to make a backup copy in case you delete an @; or something For that matter, you could go and fix all the civilopedia errors that way if you wanted to Or for the ambitious (or really bored), you could change any text string that is printed out in the appropriate .txt file... (i'm sure someone has probably discussed something like that in one of the other forums (maybe creation), but haven't seen anything like that in strategy)

	13-09-2000 20:43									#23
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Can I be really fussy and point out that S's Theatre is a wonder that reduces military unhappiness? Not across the whole empire I'll grant you, but if Apolyton is not a home for pedants I don't know where is.

	13-09-2000 22:09									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

erm...teehee
I think I got confused somewhere along the way
because I check my civilopedia and it says
-Decreases unhappy citizens by 2 per city-
Durrrrr sorry, I dont know why I was fixated on
cathedrals.
I have only been playing Civ2 for a few months,
but I played Civ1 for years, so I guess all those
new wonders confused me...
Sorry!

	14-09-2000 01:19									#25
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That's why i often combine S's with KRC!

	15-09-2000 01:11									#27
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How i loved wonders (and buildings, for that matter) moving around on the city view on civ 1!

	18-09-2000 05:05									#28
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Just to throw fuel on the fire :



BTW, is there an easier way (other than the UBB link to my home space) to paste a graphic in a post? I assume not, else we would see more graphics!

Oh, for postarity, if the link is ever broken, it used to be a clipping of the JSB from the Civilopedia from the Civ2-Mac MPG version.

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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese
[This message has been edited by MacUser (edited September 17, 2000).]

	18-09-2000 12:01									#29
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I adore you, MacUser! you're sooo good!

I don't think there's an easier way for posting images

	24-09-2000 23:36									#30
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Ah, an adoring public! It's what I live for!

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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese