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orange is offline orange
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 02:35 Visit orange's homepage!
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Embargo on Cuba - Isn't it about time we drop this? Got spare money?



Why can't we play nice with our southern island neighbor? Castro isn't that bad a leader, all things considered, and it's not like our embargo is hurting him or his power in Cuba...Socialism works for Cuba, the cold war is over, so why not ditch the embargo and import some cigars?

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
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Mar 1999
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What? And admit that we're wrong?

faded glory is offline faded glory
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Jan 2001
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No, three reasons


1) Casto is a scumbag dictator who oppresses those who disagree and sends them packing on dingy boats to florida.

2)Castro almost brought us to WW3. We can never forgive him for doing this.

3) We dont need his sugar,him and his expanisionist agenda's can stay right on that island (Grenada)


quote:
Socialism works for Cuba


errr......about 2 million Cuban americans would disagree

Kyle is offline Kyle
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Jan 1970
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Yes. With the embargo, the US will have no influence in attempting a democratic transfer of power when the POS (Castro) dies.

Shai-Hulud is offline Shai-Hulud
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Jan 2002
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I think you've had your fun. It's worth for the cigars alone . As said, all things considered, Cuba isn't that bad...when compared to North Korea. That Gov is really fascist scum of the earth , mind me for saying. It's not like ideologies and nations are going to fall just because they don't trade with US

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
No, three reasons


1) Casto is a scumbag dictator who oppresses those who disagree and sends them packing on dingy boats to florida.


As opposed to Bautista, who was a worse scumbag dictator, but American companies could deal with him to plunder Cuba's resources, as long as Bautista and his wife got their standard 10% kickback. Or in contrast to the enlightened, democratic rulers the US has supported elsewhere in this hemisphere.

quote:
2)Castro almost brought us to WW3. We can never forgive him for doing this.


Nope, we did that ourselves. The Cuban missile crisis was a direct response to the US putting missile batteries in Turkey pointed right at the underbelly of the USSR. Khrushchev decided to return the favor.

quote:
3) We dont need his sugar,him and his expanisionist agenda's can stay right on that island (Grenada)


Oh, but there's those good seegars, good rum, hot little Cubanas, white sand beaches.

And who cares if he's got an expansionist agenda? It's not like we have a monopoly on that now, is it?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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Why do some people put a "u" and drop a "t" in "Battista" while others don't?

Tau Ceti is offline Tau Ceti
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Nov 1999
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 03:25
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Dunno about the 'u', but dropping that second 't' makes it correct. Except for 'll' and 'rr', Spanish does not have double consonants. (OK, you can have things like 'ficción', if that is a Spanish word, but then the two 'c's do not stand for the same sound. Technically, even 'll' is not a double consonant.)

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why do some people put a "u" and drop a "t" in "Battista" while others don't?


Bautista (Baptist / Baptiste) is the common form of the name. I've seen it both ways in print, but don't remember which was correct - it may also be due to dialect differences.

ZoboZeWarrior is offline ZoboZeWarrior
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 03:36
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USA will never accept a state which he didn't control more or less or have the same point of view on the american continents.

Just remember what happens to several states of south america which gouvernment where too socialist for US taste.

CIA come, traied some militars and cops and overthrowed the gouvernment, like in a civ game, but less fun.

But Cuba was not simple to overthrow apparently (the pigs bay).

Since, Cuba woks quite well. There is problems. Some are caused by the regime some are caused by USA blocus too.

Saying that USA is doing a blocus becaus Fidel is an Didactor, is just bullshit.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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quote:
USA will never accept a state which he didn't control more or less or have the same point of view on the american continents


Aren´t there often political differences between the USA and France? I hope they do not invade your country...

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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I say we turn the al quida guys loose in his country. they have to make accross the minefield first.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Good idea, but they will probably refuse to give up their current holidays in Cuba.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
Aren´t there often political differences between the USA and France? I hope they do not invade your country...


I'm sure Germany will be the first to defend the french in such a case as the rest of the EU that will be a sight to see Germany and France side by side

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
I'm sure Germany will be the first to defend the french in such a case as the rest of the EU that will be a sight to see Germany and France side by side


The French would surrender before you had a chance to defend them.

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
errr......about 2 million Cuban americans would disagree


Your last comment, and not any of your three points, is the real reason.

2 Million Cuban Americans can "VOTE" here. Citizans in Cuba can't They are a strong political force. No one really wants to piss them off...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Jan 1970
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The saddest part about the Cuba situation is that Castro was more a nationalist than a communist and when he took power he made overtures to the United States, including visiting the country. Unfortunately, people like VP Nixon and Edgar Hoover branded him a communist and a threat to the United States. This drove him into the arms of the Soviets.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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Jan 1970
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quote:
2 Million Cuban Americans can "VOTE" here. Citizans in Cuba can't They are a strong political force. No one really wants to piss them off...


Most of whom live in one place - Florida. One place with the 4th most electoral votes in the nation. One place with 2 million voters voting one way WILL swing the electoral votes to one candidate or another. Cuban Americans are, unfortunately, one group that has too much power, especially relative to their overall size.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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nt (obviously)

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 07-02-2002 at 04:46

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
nt (obviously)


why do you lie

oh, I think that Castro is a bad distator but there is no reason for us to continue the Embargo

if he was anti-US there would be

Jon Miller

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Jan 1970
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Interesting sidelight to the Cuban missile crisis. The Soviets put nuclear artillery into Cuba and the United States didn't know about it. If say the U.S. had invaded Cuba the decision on whether to use the nuclear artillery against the invasion force lay with the Soviet field commanders.

axi is offline axi
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 05:06
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quote:
Saying that USA is doing a blocus becaus Fidel is an Didactor, is just bullshit.


There may be some truth behind your error there kid...

"Didactor" means teacher in Greek (sounds alot like "dictator", doesn't it?)

In fact Castro IS a big teacher for us all: he showed us how to make the Revolution and defend it against the full force of the imperialists. He is an inspiration to all communists around the world.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller


why do you lie

oh, I think that Castro is a bad distator but there is no reason for us to continue the Embargo

if he was anti-US there would be

Jon Miller



rolf

no, it was a spontaneous appresiation of the Ramones. then I realized that i had not clicked «a new thread»



that was fecking hilarious

Kyle is offline Kyle
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Jan 1970
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quote:
Originally posted by axi


He is an inspiration to all communists around the world.




A dictator for your role model, that ought to bring in the recruits and sympathy.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle



A dictator for your role model, that ought to bring in the recruits and sympathy.

yeah but was it dictator or was it didactor? better learn your Greek before you speak

Kyle is offline Kyle
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22

yeah but was it dictator or was it didactor? better learn your Greek before you speak


You need to not be drunk when you post.


He said Castro and that is what I was referring to.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
I'm sure Germany will be the first to defend the french in such a case as the rest of the EU that will be a sight to see Germany and France side by side


Of course we would love to be on the side of the winners from time to time...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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If the Cuban Americans had any sense, and I know some of their leaders don't, they would support an end to the embargo.

Opening up Cuba would probably quickly lead to the collapse of the Castor regime and the Cuban Americans could clean up investment wise because they have lots and lots of money plus the local links to set up tourist businesses and so forth.

mactbone is offline mactbone
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Steinbrenner won't allow it. He wants to be the only one with easy access to Cuban ballplayers.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 07-02-2002 06:09
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Castro, darling of the international left. Too bad he's a dictator and a thug.

From www.amnesty.org
(A leftist organization which favors an end to the embargo)

quote:

Individuals and groups peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly continued to face repression. Some conditional releases of prisoners of conscience gave rise to hopes that the attitude of the Cuban government towards dissidents might be thawing, but new sentences and a serious escalation in repression during the closing months of 2000 discouraged such optimism. Journalists, political opponents and human rights defenders were subjected to severe harassment. Several hundred people, at least 13 of whom were prisoners of conscience, remained imprisoned for political offences. The authorities continued to use short term detention, house arrest, threats and harassment to stifle and discourage political dissent. The courts continued to apply the death penalty.


quote:
In Cuba, repression of dissent is legitimized by the Constitution and the Penal Code. Some offences against state security, such as ''enemy propaganda'', as well as offences against authority, such as ''disrespect'', have been widely applied to silence critics. Others, like ''dangerousness'', are ill-defined and open to politically motivated misuse. At times, dissidents have been convicted of criminal offences believed to have been fabricated in order to discredit them or their organization or in retaliation for peaceful expression of their beliefs. Detained dissidents have on occasion been held for long periods without trial, or convicted after procedures that did not meet international standards for fair trial.


quote:
A number of members and supporters of opposition groups were detained without trial. More than 100 were rounded up and held briefly in the days around 10 December.


quote:
AI(Amnesty International) last visited Cuba in 1988. Since then the government has not responded to the organization's requests to be allowed into the country.


www.hrw.org

quote:
The Cuban government's intolerance of democracy and free expression remained unique in the region. A one-party state, Cuba restricted nearly all avenues of political dissent. Although dissidents occasionally faced criminal prosecution, the government relied more frequently on short-term detentions, house arrest, travel restrictions, threats, surveillance, politically-motivated dismissals from employment, and other forms of harassment.


quote:
Cuba's restrictions on human rights were undergirded by the country's legal and institutional structure. The rights to freedom of expression, association, assembly, movement, and of the press were strictly limited under Cuban law.


quote:
The government continued to prosecute people for "illegal exit" if they attempted to leave the island without first obtaining official permission to do so. Such permission was sometimes denied arbitrarily, or made contingent on the purchase of an expensive exit permit.


quote:
Another prominent activist who was still behind bars as of November was thirty-nine-year-old Dr. Oscar Elías Biscet González. Biscet received a three-year prison sentence in February 2000 for protests that included turning the Cuban flag upside-down and carrying anti-abortion placards


quote:
Whether detained for political or common crimes, inmates were subjected to abusive prison conditions. Prisoners frequently suffered malnourishment and languished in overcrowded cells without appropriate medical attention. Some endured physical and sexual abuse, typically by other inmates with the acquiescence of guards, or long periods in punitive isolation cells. Prison authorities insisted that all detainees participate in politically oriented "re-education" sessions or face punishment. Political prisoners who denounced the poor conditions of imprisonment were frequently punished with solitary confinement, restricted visits, or denial of medical treatment.


quote:
Penal code changes dating from the late 1990s had extended capital punishment to cases of drug trafficking with aggravating circumstances.


quote:
The authorities routinely detained and questioned independent journalists, monitored their telephone calls and visitors, restricted their travel, and put them under house arrest to prevent coverage of certain events. In May, in recognition of such tactics, the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), a U.S.-based press freedom group, named President Fidel Castro as one of the Ten Worst Enemies of the Press for 2001.


quote:
The government recognized only one labor union, the Worker's Central of Cuba (Central de Trabajadores de Cuba, CTC). Independent labor unions were denied formal status and their members were harassed. Workers employed in businesses backed by foreign investment remained under tight government control. Under restrictive labor laws, the authorities had a prominent role in the selection, payment, and dismissal of workers, effectively denying workers the right to bargain directly with employers over benefits, promotions, and wages.


quote:
Human rights defenders were systematically harassed. The authorities routinely used surveillance, phone tapping, and intimidation in its efforts to restrict independent monitoring of the government's human rights practices. In some instances, they employed arbitrary searches, short-term arrests, evictions, travel restrictions, politically-motivated dismissals from employment, threats and other forms of harassment against local activists.


The left discredits itself by venerating these thugs. If Castro wants trade with the USA, he should restore siezed US property.

 
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