12-02-2002 01:49									#31
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For those who want some realism, I recommend Shogun:Total Wars. It's the best strategy game when realism is concerned. Its only weak point is that it is limited to the feudalism era in Japan and to the provinces there. Other than that, it allows you not to be just a strategist but as a general controlling the troops and deciding on such details as: securing/defending a bridge crossing, taking advatage of hilltop for defending archers, conserving the limited arrows, picking the appropriate weather for the assault, hiding behind trees to reduce casualties, comparing the morale of your troops as well as the enemy's troop in making tactical decisions, selecting troop formations, going for hit-and-run skirmishes or full-fledged charges, selecting attack targets, taking advantage of calvary speeds, etc.

	12-02-2002 02:52									#32
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Yes, and the MP game (ie just the combat resolution bit) is also excellent, though most play the Mongol Invasion version.

	12-02-2002 04:02									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Encomium Do a Web search for "EMPIRE EARTH". It has gotten BETTER reviews from the public than Civ III. Really.

I tried EE for about 15 minutes and didn't get past the tutorial. I know that's not giving it a fair chance, but I just couldn't continue to play it after the tutorial explained (and showed) that "guys with pointy weapons kill guys with slashing weapons who kill guys with bows who kill guys with pointy weapons..." (or something like that). Maybe the game really is more profound than that, or else the designers made quite a feeble attempt to include elements of tactic.

	12-02-2002 06:34									#34
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I suggest you give the modded version of CTP2 a try; it is WAY different then the original game. The AI has been vastly improved and many new features have been added. Plus it has things like MP, unit stacking, more techs, more govs... etc.

For a truly difficult and intertaining game I would suggest playing on line against real human players.

	12-02-2002 07:08									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I suggest you give the modded version of CTP2 a try; it is WAY different then the original game. The AI has been vastly improved and many new features have been added. Plus it has things like MP, unit stacking, more techs, more govs... etc. For a truly difficult and intertaining game I would suggest playing on line against real human players.

Hmmm... Sounds interesting... i have only tried civ 1 (played only once) civ2, smac and civ 3..... and i have heard many good things about CTP2. (execpt for its ai) yet if this game takes more than 2-3 hours at most in MP this game simply fails as a MP game.

Yet, people like u makes me feel like im missing something great.
Perhaps i should give CTP2 a chance.

	12-02-2002 07:31									#36
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i hated CTP1 and never thought of giving ctp2 a try. but these guys make it sound as though CTP2 with a mod pack is really good...

	12-02-2002 09:00									#37
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I would recommend the following:

1) EU2 - It's on sale now (I bought my copy for $29.00 Can). This game is a thing of beauty! From the opening movie to the music, to the strategy, etc. It is a very complex, yet elegant game. You can play as one of 200 countries! And they are ALL playable. This gives you an idea of the scope of this game. It's all played on a huge world map. Highly recommended!

2) CTP2 - Yes, I am recommending this game. I bought a copy for $14.95. This game has had time to mature. With the right mod, this game is very enjoyable. The opening movie alone, puts Civ3 to shame. The movie is inspiring. Plus there are wonder movies, you can play with 29 civilizations, the interface and panels have a marble/gold texture to them, and there are 5-6 game resolutions. It looks very nice.

My suggestion for CTP2 is to download the official patch, then get "Modswapper", then add either "The Apolyton Pack" or "The Cradle" pack. CTP2 modded is very well done.

3) Shogun Total War: Warlords Edition - This is the final version with all the patches plus the Mongel campaign. This game shines! The production value alone is something worth experiencing. Very nice strategic map, movies, battles, sounds, etc. It's also on sale.

4) Imperialism I and II - They are older games, but they are available as a free download from the Underdog site (www.theunderdogs.org/).

5) Heroes of Might and Magic III (The complete game pack) - Here is an extraordinary series. Normally, I don't play Sci-fi/Fantasy, but this game has excellent strategy/units, cities, music, etc. It definitely has that "one more turn" feel.

6) SMACX - this is a great game. Both the game and the expansion pack are on sale at very low prices. It is a solid, thoughtful, long-term and very playable experience. For the price, this one should not be missed. Design your own weapons!

Hope this helps

Last edited by Leonidas on 12-02-2002 at 09:05

	12-02-2002 16:34									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by atraikius ..................and has the best manufacturer support I have ever seen (patches amost monthly with not only bug fixes, but game improvements and additions).

Reminds me of CIV2. Automation of settlers came out in the patches amongst others.........

	16-02-2002 01:19									#39
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1. Shogun Total War: Warlord Edition - best turn based / real time tactical game I've ever seen or played and, in the end, more fun than Civ3 which degenerates into bean counting after you get past the learning curve.

2. SMAC/X - as many others have pointed out, shows clearly why Civ3 met with such mixed reception from the fans. The AI is brain dead, but the design is heads and shoulders above Civ3's.

3. The sequel to 1602 is coming out sometime this year (1503, I believe) - it's technically real time but it's at such a slow pace it doesn't really matter. The original was a lot of fun for several weeks and, imo, was a better game than others in the genre (e.g. Imperialism & Colonisation). If you don't want to wait, you can find 1602 for about $10 and is definitely worth a look.

	16-02-2002 12:17									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Leonidas I would recommend the following: 1) EU2 - It's on sale now (I bought my copy for $29.00 Can). This game is a thing of beauty! From the opening movie to the music, to the strategy, etc. It is a very complex, yet elegant game. You can play as one of 200 countries! And they are ALL playable. This gives you an idea of the scope of this game. It's all played on a huge world map. Highly recommended! 2) CTP2 - Yes, I am recommending this game. I bought a copy for $14.95. This game has had time to mature. With the right mod, this game is very enjoyable. The opening movie alone, puts Civ3 to shame. The movie is inspiring. Plus there are wonder movies, you can play with 29 civilizations, the interface and panels have a marble/gold texture to them, and there are 5-6 game resolutions. It looks very nice. My suggestion for CTP2 is to download the official patch, then get "Modswapper", then add either "The Apolyton Pack" or "The Cradle" pack. CTP2 modded is very well done. 3) Shogun Total War: Warlords Edition - This is the final version with all the patches plus the Mongel campaign. This game shines! The production value alone is something worth experiencing. Very nice strategic map, movies, battles, sounds, etc. It's also on sale.

Hey Leonidas, the first two are my preferences.

I can't stop playing EU2 to even think about giving civ3 a shot (even patched)...That game (EU2) is the next level of civ-style games. Supposedly, Paradox is coming out with a game with the EU engine based on Rome. DROOLLLLL!!

...and of course, I have to recommend CTP2 Modded!

Do you really need a 3-D card for Shogun? I always wanted to give that one a shot, but I got the basic Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X card on my system, so I'm not sure that will work with the game.

	16-02-2002 12:30									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by macaskil I have civ3 and Empire Earth. I like them both - but they are completely different. civ3 is turn-based. EE is real-time and is very much a nuke-the-b*ds type of game. I play it when I DON'T want a challenge! The graphics and scenarios are great, though. If this is what Encomium wants civ3 to be then I am not surprised he is disappointed. If I want to play a game that's like EE, then I... er.... play EE. I don't have SMAC but it appears to be an SF/fantasy game - while what I like is a game that takes you from the stone age to the present or beyond. Currently I am playing CTP2 which has lots of features I'd like to see in Civ3 - no workers! if you want to improve a tile you just do it, if you have the money. - more civs - more techs - more units - better management screens - you can actually manage your cities while the AI is shuffling units around the screen! but.... the AI is useless. In my current game the AI has been bombing the same city for hundreds of years without sending in ground forces. In civ3 if a civ declares war on me I feel a sudden need to visit the "john" !

I never said I wanted Civ III to be like Empire Earth. I just said EE got better reviews from the public (on Gamespot.com).

If you want to see what I wish Civ III was more like, check out the LWC mod by Plutarck on the Completed Mods forum at the Civ Fanatics site. Here's the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...p?threadid=9078

MORE and better units; more techs; more Wonders and improvements; easier to see resources; more rational costs for improvements; better resource allocation, etc. It is the best mod going, and tons beter than what Firaxis threw at us.

	16-02-2002 19:32									#42
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Do you really need a 3-D card for Shogun? I always wanted to give that one a shot, but I got the basic Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X card on my system, so I'm not sure that will work with the game.

You don't technically need a 3D card at all as there is a software renderer for the game. However, it looks a LOT better accelerated and depending on your system it may be nigh unplayable in software.

It's pretty picky about having a fair amount of RAM as well. The recommended specs are 128 of system mem and a 32 MB video card. Just guessing, if it didn't like your card, you'd probably want to have at least a 600 MHz CPU of some sort to compensate for having to run in SW mode.

I don't know if you've tried it or not, but the graphics are on the order of something like Myth I and II, if your system could handle that, it could probably handle Shogun.