08-02-2002 02:17									#1
	Are there any other games like CIV3? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I like strategy/geo-political games. CIV3 is one of the best i've played but i've only played Civ2 and all the CTP games, i thought civ2 was cool when it first came out but CTP sucked for some reason. ( the way it was set up i guess). I also saw this game called SuperPower on the internet thats supposed to come this spring that looks like it'll blow Civ3 away!

I like the HARDCORE realism games the best. This superpower game looks better than anything i've ever seen b4. I also logged onto gamespot.com and saw this game called "Cyberjudas"...is this game any good? I like the realism and micro management type games. Is Europa Unerversalis (?) any good?

Has anybody played a strategy game that they think is better than Civ3? I wanna try another one out. Civ3 is pretty cool but i'd rather play a more in depth game that is more complicated. or is this the best one??

	08-02-2002 02:34									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

1609? Something like that.. the year isn't right. Kind of a cool game.

Moo3 is coming out.

Alpha Centuari of course is great, I still play it from time to time.

ImO .. civ3 rules. Hard to beat. Hope they come out with more games like it or better then it.

	08-02-2002 02:46									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

SMAC--it has a steeper learning curve than the rest of the Civ series, but after you've played it, you'll have a better understanding about why some of us are complaining so much about Civ III.

	08-02-2002 02:58									#4
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk SMAC--it has a steeper learning curve than the rest of the Civ series, but after you've played it, you'll have a better understanding about why some of us are complaining so much about Civ III.

Civ 3 does have its downsides. I still enjoy playing it much more then Smax though. I do still play smax, love the simplicity sometimes (and the multiplayer).

Steeper learning curve? Not sure, seems pretty basic. You got energy, food and minerals. That's it! Guess I have played it (smax) for SO MANY hours upon hours (upon hours upon hours) I just don't remember learning it. Just seems as easy as chewing gum.

	08-02-2002 03:11									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Try thinking back--way back--to when you first saw that interface...

edit:...or customized a unit...or made an SE choice...or used a crawler...etc, etc.

	08-02-2002 03:19									#6
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Try thinking back--way back--to when you first saw that interface...

It's odd how different people react completely differently to the same thing. I think the SMAC/X interface is one of the best (although not perfect, of course). Very intuitive if you played Civ2, with other thoughtful touches. Civ3's interface is better in some ways, worse in others.

What was hard for me was the abstract nature of the science-fiction techs and units. But even so, after playing a while I grew to appreciate their internal consistency and logic.

	08-02-2002 03:25									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Oh, once I understood it, I loved it--it was getting to understand that was the problem for me. I distinctly remember staring at it for a half hour trying to do...something. It second nature now.

I just thank God they didn't use tiny ten pixel buttons back then...

	08-02-2002 03:39									#8
	To answer your question... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, I think you will enjoy Europa Universalis very much. All those looking for Historical realism should play it. It is also the first truly revolutionary turn based strategy game since CIV I and Warlords.

MOOIII is one we will all be buying when it comes out.

SMAC has the most detail of all the games in the lineage, but also has the most tedium (... yet another round of upgrades...), so you may or may not consider it a step up from CIV III.

Master of Orion (I not II) and Master of Magic are classics, but AIs have come a long way since then.

	08-02-2002 04:15									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i never got into Moo and moo2, nor SMAC (although i thouroghly enjoy/enjoued it). the reas with Moo serires was the combat and the colonisatioon. i just didnt like it. although, i enjoyed them when i first played - they were different. just not my kinda game.

SMAC was brilliant in very area except it was to nerdy Sci-Fi star trek convention typo game. and i like games on earth (if civ3 was built on the SMAC engine i woulndt be here now.)

Europa Universalis. Depth, strategey, diplomacy, war, economy, colonialism, all historical, all brilliant. the civ series compared the EU series? like comparing fish and chips to caviar.

	08-02-2002 04:36									#10
	Remove this text

Europa is a bugfest, but the fun of playing as a forgotten nation like Venice or the Hanseatic League is amazing.

	08-02-2002 05:57									#11
	Re: Are there any other games like CIV3? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Hazard I also saw this game called SuperPower on the internet thats supposed to come this spring that looks like it'll blow Civ3 away! I like the HARDCORE realism games the best. This superpower game looks better than anything i've ever seen b4. ... I like the realism and micro management type games...

You might want to check back on the SuperPower forum. The demo appears to reveal some problems. The game sounds promising, though. But I hope it will not be just another "blow stuff up" wargame.

Hardcore realism? Well, it will be difficult to find that in a game. These are just games, after all. Every game abstracts some elements of the experience. With SP, the demo players seem to be playing it like a wargame. That in itself is not realistic, because in the real world that kind of "build lots of nukes and launch them at everybody just for fun" stuff does not happen.

If you like micromanagement and sci-fi, try Space Empires IV. Its not a 3-D shoot em up, but of course real strategy gamers don't need real flashy graphics. You basically expand from your home planet and conquer the galaxy. The diplomatic and trade model is decent, and you of course do R&D and build various types of ships. You can even go down to the level of naming individual ships.

The modding community is quite strong, so you can deploy a navy of Klingon warships (from Star Trek, in case you're not too familiar with the Trek universe), Romulans, etc etc. There are many things about the game you can modify yourself.

Another good game if you like micromanagement is Capitalism II. Hardcore business sim. Great game. Produce stuff, mount hostile corporate takeovers, etc.

I got Europa Universalis II recently and I'm still trying to learn it, but it looks good...

And then of course there's Alpha Centauri. A game that will never leave my hard drive....

	08-02-2002 06:54									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Europa Universalis II is awesome, but may be too "upper class" for some Civ players. And its fairly stable and fast, as long as you have 128 or more Ram. Personally, I've had maybe 3 CTDs over several months (RL) of playing.

	08-02-2002 08:09									#13
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Do a Web search for "EMPIRE EARTH".

It has gotten BETTER reviews from the public than Civ III. Really.

	08-02-2002 14:47									#14
	Re: Re: Are there any other games like CIV3? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Antonin You might want to check back on the SuperPower forum. The demo appears to reveal some problems. The game sounds promising, though. But I hope it will not be just another "blow stuff up" wargame.

Where is this forum?

	08-02-2002 17:28									#15
	Re: Re: Re: Are there any other games like CIV3? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Be Quicker Where is this forum?

I think it's at www.golemlabs.com

	08-02-2002 22:54									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just looked on their website, seems like SuperPower is going to be another rush job - one of the main programmers responded to a sensible suggestion on their discussion boards by saying something like 'good idea, I'd love to start from scratch again but we're having to go as it is now because of publisher deadlines. Check it out in vers 2...'

And apparently the combat engine is 25% finished now and their looking for a spring 2002 release. Uh-oh.

	09-02-2002 07:57									#17
	Support Apolyton

this is pushing it, but discipiles 2 is kinda like civ. (cities land boundries, armies/groups, city imp's)

	09-02-2002 08:57									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

"Are there any other games like CIV3?"

If you mean "are there any other games that were poorly developed & released too early, and thereby drove away a good portion of its pre-release fan base?" then you may want to check out WWII-online.

	09-02-2002 09:37									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Now, I'm waiting for Superpower.. It looks like it will be a great game.. Check it out at http://www.golemlabs.com

	09-02-2002 09:43									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by volcanohead Just looked on their website, seems like SuperPower is going to be another rush job - one of the main programmers responded to a sensible suggestion on their discussion boards by saying something like 'good idea, I'd love to start from scratch again but we're having to go as it is now because of publisher deadlines. Check it out in vers 2...' And apparently the combat engine is 25% finished now and their looking for a spring 2002 release. Uh-oh.

Noooo..
Hey, I've got an idea, why don't we all go to superpower forum and warn the programmer/publisher so they won't make the same mistake like Firaxis did..

	09-02-2002 22:08									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by zergling Noooo.. Hey, I've got an idea, why don't we all go to superpower forum and warn the programmer/publisher so they won't make the same mistake like Firaxis did..

I haven't played the SuperPower demo because it's too big for me to download, but some of the people who have are happy, and some are not.

In the end, we can only wait until the finished product because the game developers have said that the demo is just an early beta.

It's necessary to remember that these are just games, people. Companies make the games they want to make, and if we don't like them, we don't have to play them.

If certain people on this forum think they can do better, then they should do so.

As far as Golem making "the same mistake like Firaxis did," you can't be serious....

If Civ 3, which at least one US gaming magazine called the "Game of the Year," did not meet YOUR impossibly high expectations, then don't play it. Why are you here? Go play something that you like.

Many forums would not tolerate the sort of hysterical abuse that certain Civ-obsessed grief players come here to dish out.

Some of these people should go to a forum like the Championship Manager message boards and try to behave like children, and see what it gets them.

They will be flamed brutally by the Championship Manager player community, and then banned by the moderators.

People who have nothing to do with their time except come on Apolyton and gnaw the "I hate Civ 3" bone should start up their own website and do it there.

I am not a frequent visitor to this site, mainly because of certain people who hijack every thread with the same old crap...

	09-02-2002 22:14									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB Europa Universalis II is awesome, but may be too "upper class" for some Civ players.

Yes it is an awesome game, but I'm still trying to get a feel for it. While I play and enjoy a lot of strategy games, including Civ 3, they are all very different.

What you get out of them depends on your mood at the time. Sometimes people can be in the mood for one thing one day, another thing one day.

One of the most pleasant dilemmas is to look at your screen and say, "There are several good possibilities...what do I feel like playing now?"

Sometimes you don't feel like playing anything, so you just go read a book.

	09-02-2002 22:21									#23
	Put an end to popups!

the rerason champman forums arew like that is cos the game is so good there aint much to complain about, except match engine but they fixed that in last CM.

and when CM3 came out with bugs and problems, they fixed em within a month. within as month you had a complete game that was even better then what was planned.

	10-02-2002 03:27									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man the rerason champman forums arew like that is cos the game is so good there aint much to complain about, except match engine but they fixed that in last CM.

No...there are complaints on the Championship Manager forum. The day the game was released in the UK there were complaints about inaccurate teams, inadequate research, the possibility of unrealistically creating impossible-to-beat formations, unrealistic money amounts, the opposing team almost always scoring the the first 3 minutes of play, etc etc...many people complained about the game being not different enough from CM3 and therefore not worthy of being called a new game... Some felt cheated out of their money.

But it does not descend to the stinkbomb-throwing level you find on this forum. People who constantly make the same gripes the same mean-spirited way, just because it's the Internet and they can do anything with near-anonymity, are banned, temporarily or permanently.

People who define their whole lives in terms of being an "authority" on a computer game, and who try to make "reputations" for themselves by tearing down something a great many people enjoy, are not permitted to do so.

	10-02-2002 07:39									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And it's too bad all the tiresome shills and apologists Firaxis may hire to come to this forum to tell us how "fabulous!!!!" this VERY flawed game is are not "banned".

But, oh no. The Firaxis apologists come here and with their anonymity throw THEIR Web stink bombs to personally attack and flame anyone who has the rudimentary sense to see how disappointing and often nonsensical Civ III truly is.

Being unable to defend themselves with facts or logic, I am certain indeed that all the puerile fanboys have a site where only those in love with Civ III are permitted. I bet Firaxis may want to sponsor them!

	10-02-2002 19:35									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In my opinion civ3 is better than empire earth

	11-02-2002 19:51									#27
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I have civ3 and Empire Earth. I like them both - but they are completely different. civ3 is turn-based. EE is real-time and is very much a nuke-the-b*ds type of game. I play it when I DON'T want a challenge! The graphics and scenarios are great, though. If this is what Encomium wants civ3 to be then I am not surprised he is disappointed. If I want to play a game that's like EE, then I... er.... play EE.

I don't have SMAC but it appears to be an SF/fantasy game - while what I like is a game that takes you from the stone age to the present or beyond. Currently I am playing CTP2 which has lots of features I'd like to see in Civ3

- no workers! if you want to improve a tile you just do it, if you have the money.

- more civs

- more techs

- more units

- better management screens - you can actually manage your cities while the AI is shuffling units around the screen!

but.... the AI is useless. In my current game the AI has been bombing the same city for hundreds of years without sending in ground forces. In civ3 if a civ declares war on me I feel a sudden need to visit the "john" !

	11-02-2002 20:01									#28
	Suffering from ads?

I bought CTP2 and could never get into it. It just seemed to take so long to make a turn and thus I alwasy fealt I was playing in order to complete the game, rather than for entertainment. Civ3 I do like, but it does have its problems. SMAC was a great game. I think ploletic rather than nationality are a great basis to build factions round.

	12-02-2002 00:20									#29
	Tired of ads?

For Sci-Fi TBS try Space Empires IV

http://www.malfador.com/se4.html

its a very entertaining game that is unbelievably modifiable and has the best manufacturer support I have ever seen (patches amost monthly with not only bug fixes, but game improvements and additions). The AI is a bit week (greatly improved in the gold version which could almost be a new game), but is much improved in some user created races available on the publishers website. Its the only game I've spent more time playing than the Civ series

	12-02-2002 00:36									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Encomium Do a Web search for "EMPIRE EARTH". It has gotten BETTER reviews from the public than Civ III. Really.

Empire Earth is nothing like Civ. It is an RTS game "advancing" eras only requires collecting enough resources to buy your way to the next level. And it sux.

There are very few games like Civ. As a TBS game it requires a thoughtful plan and more than just a fast mouse finger.

BTW, EU sux too, but once again you can't compare it to civ because it is a different type of game.