11-02-2002 09:27									#1
	MOD: Feels like Civ 2 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I wrote this mod in order to make the Civ 3 games feel more like the old Civ 2. It's not an exact replica by any means and I've probably got some things wrong. Please let me know. If anyone wants to take this and make it even more like Civ 2, feel free to do so.

The main changes are as follows:

Workers, Scouts, Leaders and Armies have been removed and Settlers work the way they use to.

Working rate has been adjusted to approximate Civ 2. I've guessed a bit here so excuse me if I got some of it wrong.

All terrain output, defense bonuses etc has been changed to reflect Civ 2. The one exception is swamps and glaciers - since these are not in Civ 3, flood plains have been used to perform the combined function of both.

Strategy and luxury resources have been removed. All the resources appearing on the map again reflect that of Civ 2. Since I've used discarded strategy resource icons in some cases, they may not always be what they appear, though I've used images that sort-of approximate what they are. Right-click on the terrain to find out what is actually there when in doubt. And the output of these resources should accurately reflect Civ 2.

Cultural effects have been turned off, no cities overwhelmed and wanting to join etc. Other civilizations are not interested in your culture.

I've had to use cultural points in the early stages to give the full 21 production squares. It would've been nice to have been able to automatically give 10 culture points to a city but this isn't possible as far as I know. What I have done though, is allow early buildings (Palace, Barracks, Granary, Temple, Walls) each give 1 culture point, but all other improvements give -1 so culture won't keep growing for very long, just enough to get the production squares. The border factor is 25 so you will need 25 culture points. It will eventually halt - culture never goes negative.

I wanted to change the tech tree to be like Civ 2, but it was a too messy and long a job trying to make it look good on the advisor's screen so I abandoned it and left it as per Civ 3. If anyone else wants to take up this project by all means feel free to.

I also wanted to go through all the units, giving them costs, attack, defense etc, reflecting the chart given with Civ 2 but it's just too tedious. The only units I did change in this regard are the Settler and the Explorer. Again, feel free to take this up as your own project if you like.

I've kept unique units and attributes for the civs in, knowing that you can switch them off in the new game screen if you prefer. If you don't, expansionist civs get an extra Settler instead of the now-discarded scout. And remember, you don't need strategic resources to to build units anymore.

There are other tweaks as well to approximate the old game - government types, city sizes, content citizens etc.

Anyway, I hope the main intention for this mod is acheived even if some of the details are wrong, that is, to return it to a "just one more turn" feel, the old Civ 2 again.

Attachment: feels like civ2.zip
This has been downloaded 314 time(s).

Last edited by The Rusty Gamer on 15-02-2002 at 16:39

	11-02-2002 19:46									#2
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just out of curiousity, why did you buy Civ3 if you were going to make it behave just like civ2. I admire the tenacity of such an extensive mod, it just seems like you wasted $50.

	11-02-2002 19:56									#3
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ps...I am downloading this zip. It sounds interesting.

	12-02-2002 03:24									#4
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Well, a lot of people were complaining how Civ 3 wasn't as good as Civ 2 so I thought maybe this might help. You still get the advantage of the new graphics, interface etc.

Also, I did it just because "it was there" to do. Why do people climb mountains?

I haven't wasted my money because I've still played the game as it was originally intended plus with other mods.

	12-02-2002 20:54									#5
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cool, that makes sense.

	14-02-2002 01:53									#6
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What mean "like" in this mod?

	14-02-2002 04:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by godinex What mean "like" in this mod?

I mean it in a general sense - no workers, no culture, settlers as of old etc. Since the tech tree is still Civ 3, the units are still in general Civ 3, and there are no zones of control (though I may yet add them), I can't say "Play AS Civ 2" now, can I?

	14-02-2002 05:22									#8
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about the tech tree, couldn't you just mark all of the techs as "Not required for era advancement" and then organize them by eras so that it worked graphically? this should allow you to recreate the civ2 tech tree, though things like philosophy granting an extra tech to the first civ to discover it wouldn't be possible

	14-02-2002 05:51									#9
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The real problem I had with trying to change the tech tree was trying to work out new xy coordinates. I could see it was going to be one BIG job which could, potentially, drive me out of my tree. Since this mod was a "little" idea I had that shouldn't take more than "a few hours", I don't think I really want to put to much more into it, though I see the new patch coming out is going to stuff it up a bit anyway. I made Wheat a required resource for workers to make them disappear. Apparently, we won't be able to to that kind of thing anymore.

	15-02-2002 16:45									#10
	Updated to feel even more like Civ 2. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've added ZOC to units.

I've also fixed an embarrassing mistake I made when calculating figures for resources. I misinterpreted the Civ 2 chart, and didn't realise the resource figures were inclusive of the land they were found in, not in addition to. So I've readjusted the figures down accordingly. It feels much better now.

	06-03-2002 18:03									#11
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 about the tech tree, couldn't you just mark all of the techs as "Not required for era advancement" and then organize them by eras so that it worked graphically? this should allow you to recreate the civ2 tech tree, though things like philosophy granting an extra tech to the first civ to discover it wouldn't be possible

I myself was working on a civ2 mod for Civ3, and I was thinking that if you marked all the techs as "Not required for era advancement" you would be able to jump to the next era IMMEDIATELY without even researching anything of the previous era.

Strangely enough, the x,y coordinates didn't hold me up for long. I have been tinkering with the tech tree and have the ancient age pretty much rearranged.

Rusty, I'm curious. how did you give the unit ZOC's?

	06-03-2002 18:28									#12
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There's an checkbox for Zone Of Control for each unit within the units tab.

	22-03-2002 23:19									#13
	The link doesn't seem to work Remove this text

I clicked the link to doenload it, it asked to accept a file "attachment", it opened in Notepad and was nothing but crap. That was IE. In Netscape 6 it downloads a php file but cannot show it. Extra-ordinary.
I suggest a new way to make things downloadable: just with a simple link according straightly to the file.

	23-03-2002 11:35									#14
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You have to rename it to a zip file eg: feelslikeciv2.zip and it should work.

	30-07-2002 10:18									#15
	Re: MOD: Feels like Civ 2 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer Cultural effects have been turned off, no cities overwhelmed and wanting to join etc. Other civilizations are not interested in your culture. I've had to use cultural points in the early stages to give the full 21 production squares. It would've been nice to have been able to automatically give 10 culture points to a city but this isn't possible as far as I know. What I have done though, is allow early buildings (Palace, Barracks, Granary, Temple, Walls) each give 1 culture point, but all other improvements give -1 so culture won't keep growing for very long, just enough to get the production squares. The border factor is 25 so you will need 25 culture points. It will eventually halt - culture never goes negative.

OMG ... people have been dying to find a way to turn culture off. Does this REALY WORK???? If it does, you will have a dedicated band of worshippers .... and what about foreign nationals in your cities causing culture flips, have u found a way to to turn that off???

	30-07-2002 10:42									#16
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Well, I deleted every cultural opinion except one which I called "not interested in" with a ratio of 1:1 and 0% everywhere. To be honest, I haven't played a game right through, I simply assumed it would work.

As regards to negative culture cancelling out positive culture - that definitely works. It never shrinks (a shame really, that might've given another interesting angle to the game) but it will stop growing.

	30-07-2002 12:31									#17
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quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer As regards to negative culture cancelling out positive culture - that definitely works. It never shrinks (a shame really, that might've given another interesting angle to the game) but it will stop growing.

Ah, but the problem is if one civ captures the city of another civ, all of the positive culture buildings are automatically destroyed, but the negative culture buildings are not. While a human player may know to delete the negative culture buildings in a conquered city in order to then begin building positive culture buildings in order to expand the city radius, the computer wont know this. Thus, the AI will build a positive culture building in conquered city (in order to expand the city radius to full productiveness), but the pre-existing negative culture buildings which were built by the civ who used to own the city will make sure that the radius of the city never really expands to the full 21 square city radius (in a city the AI has conqured).

I know what I said may sound a little confusing, but if you read it carefully, i think u'll see what i am talking about. If you have a way around this problem, please let me know!

	31-07-2002 08:24									#18
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The area in which I felt civ iii was really lacking was in air units. But Ive already gonr about fixing this. Good idea though. When I get some time I'll take a look at it

	16-08-2002 09:07									#19
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Hey Rusty, the ZoC in the editor just means that units will fire and take off a hp of a passing unit not stop the unit all together.

	17-08-2002 09:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by trevor Hey Rusty, the ZoC in the editor just means that units will fire and take off a hp of a passing unit not stop the unit all together.

Ah well, never mine. It was a nice try. We'll keep it in just to be different.

The PTW expansion will allow us to switch off culture flipping so we can wait for that since it's only a couple of months away. Hopefully we'll also be able to give a civ the 21 squares automatically if we want.

	17-08-2002 09:44									#21
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AFAIK, the AI will not use unit 'worker actions' unless the unit is actually called 'worker'. That's what I thought I heard Soren say once, at least...

	17-08-2002 17:47									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Trip AFAIK, the AI will not use unit 'worker actions' unless the unit is actually called 'worker'. That's what I thought I heard Soren say once, at least...

I hadn't heard that, but I found it to be true. At least, they have to have the "terraform" box checked in AI strategies.

if you have both "settle" and "terraform" checked in AI strategies, they'll sit around not knowing what to do in some cases. I played one game in which ALL the AI settlers just stood there and refused to found the starting cities!


Rusty - In playing a kind of ICS game, where all you build is barracks, do you still get no city defections? in my civ1 mod, i still get the odd defection if I surround a city.

	18-08-2002 00:04									#23
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Ahhhh, I forgot about that flag. But yes, that's right. In Civ 3 they have to be either settlers or workers... not both, sorry.

	18-08-2002 02:19									#24
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I like civ3's workers. That is a big improvement from civ2.