11-02-2002 20:02									#1
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Here goes: I'm the Iroqouis, on a pangaea map that started with 8 civs. I've already obliterated two of them (America and France), and I'm left with 5 enemies:

Germans, to my Northwest, halfway destroyed by my knights.
Persians, to my south, still quite intact and successful, my strongest enemy.
English, far far away to my southeast, they are geographically pretty large, but technologically inferior to the persians.
Aztecs to the East, with a small empire but a large, if slightly outdated, military force.
Russians to the northeast, i don't really know anything about them, but they're certainly not as strong as either me or the persians.

As soon as i got to middle ages I beelined to get tech for knights, and then for cavalry. I will be able to build cavalry in about 9 turns.

My question is this: at what point should i try to fight the persians? They almost have technological parity with me, but i usually am one advance ahead of them, so i have a good 7 turn window to make my attack with a force of advanced units. I've got 900 gold lying around to make upgrades. Should I try to topple them with cavalry, or wait for some modern unit? I haven't really done much combat in the modern era....

	11-02-2002 20:18									#2
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If you can attack them with a bunch of Cavalry before they get riflemen, do it. Otherwise I'd wait for Tanks/Bombers (unless you just have overwhelming numbers of Cavalry, in which case riflemen will slow you down, not stop you).

-Arrian

	11-02-2002 20:20									#3
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As soon as you get Calvary target the Persians Saltpeter (or horses if they are an easier target). You might want to start the conquest with your knights even. Usually the AI won't have an up to date army, as they tend to forgo upgrading a lot of their forces. The Persians always seem to keep a large number of Immortals around, instead of building more Knights. If your Knights have the Germans really on the ropes though, you might want to just finish them off so that you don't have to worry about Panzers later. In any case, waiting for Tanks to continue your conquest would make the fighting just that much more difficult. Calvary vs Musketmen is usually a better matchup than Tanks vs Infantry. Mostly because Infantry will usually be defending in larger cities with better defensive bonuses and the ability to draft.

	11-02-2002 21:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson In any case, waiting for Tanks to continue your conquest would make the fighting just that much more difficult. Calvary vs Musketmen is usually a better matchup than Tanks vs Infantry. Mostly because Infantry will usually be defending in larger cities with better defensive bonuses and the ability to draft.

I totally agree that Cav vs. Musketmen is a way, way better situation than Tanks vs. Infantry (even with bombers). My thought was, if the choice is Cav. vs. Riflemen or Tanks/Bombers vs. Infantry, I would wait. Riflemen means two things: 1) higher defense, so your Cavalry will be beaten back more often and 2) more importantly, the AI can now draft. Drafting produces conscript riflemen, which as has been discussed elsewhere, are death to Cavalry. So if you're gonna do a Cav vs. Riflemen matchup, bring a LOT of Cavalry.

-Arrian

	11-02-2002 21:52									#5
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I assume Conscript Riflemen mean death to cavalry because the battles will be close so cav wont withdraw but wont be able to actually win????

	11-02-2002 22:01									#6
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I agree, Calvary lose a lot of their power once Riflemen come along. Still they can be effective in large numbers, as they have a low mortality rate because of the retreat option. It costs more to fight until tanks come around, and Republic/Democracy are harder governments to maintain, but you are more likely to gain control of the later Oil and Rubber resources. It's a trade off that depends heavily on individual game circumstances. If one of the AI doesn't have many plains/desert/tundra, it might be a good time to take a chance to deny them Oil later on. Same goes for those mostly (original) grassland Civs, as hitting their Forest/Jungle lands can keep them from later Rubber resources.

One thought is to just suicide rush one Civ with your Calvary, as they won't be upgradeable anyways. They should easily be able to outpreform (captured workers and territory) the returns they would give by disbanding them for sheilds. Then once the damage is done, make peace (if the Civ is still left standing) and build up for Tanks. Just make sure not to overextend yourself too much.

	11-02-2002 22:55									#7
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What I do is drain my enemy's economy before I fight. I make sure I have some worthless tech that they can't do anything about (some sort of tech that lets you build a wonder that you or someone else already built, or somthing worthless like printing press, but don't give them a government tech! You don't want them making units as fast as you!).

Ask for their offer and take it, check back every now and then to see how much gold they have. If their gold is down to around 0 to 5, take the time to look at their land (trading maps would help, or trade maps withone else that might have traded maps with the persians recently (How would you know, you don't, gamble)), and see for anything of interest for you in the case that you wouldn't be able to completly destroy t
hem (some resource you might need, or some city with an ideal location for furture attacks and so forth).

Next I would have to settle things with the germans. I never pick a war with the germans, since the last and only time I did that, they almost killed me with their panzars. IMHO: ALWAYS MAKE FRIENDS WITH THESE GUYS. Since you seem to be at war, or were at war, shower them with some free gold or somthing, make them happy.

There are two things I would do now if I were in your chair.
1: Get an MPP or an alliance against the persians with the Aztecs. It sounds that they would be great at starting a deversion, making the persians to send their immortals and such to the aztecs (give this a couple of turns). I would then send my calvery the other side of the persian empire. Grab a few cities, and raze them (I find its better to build your own than taking someone's else's city who would want it back).

2: Remeber the germans I mentioned earlier? Well, wait untill the germans can build panzers (stay on defense), and get an MPP with the germans. Then attack ther persians, and drag germany into the war (give then a ROP so their panzers can fly over your rails into persian territory). Let the germans get a few of the spoils of the war. I don't know about the Aztecs for this option. My feeling is that they would be destroyed or in a war with England or russia at this point and too busy dying at this moment.

In all honesty, I would choose number 2, as the German panzer will be of great help to you.

	11-02-2002 23:29									#8
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(1) Cavalry = horse soldiers, Calvary = place where Jesus died.

(2) The help is all appreciated, I think I will end up peacemaking with the germans very soon, then send my knights back home to get upgraded before attacking. I will also use the Aztecs as a distraction force if convenient.

(3) Another thing I forgot to mention: i'm currently in a very lucrative trade with the persians, with them giving me quite a bit of gpt for 4 luxuries, i will promptly end those trades the turn before war.

	11-02-2002 23:33									#9
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#1 is what I get for posting at 6am when I haven't slept yet... ick

	11-02-2002 23:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Sharkyy (1) Cavalry = horse soldiers, Calvary = place where Jesus died. (2) The help is all appreciated, I think I will end up peacemaking with the germans very soon, then send my knights back home to get upgraded before attacking. I will also use the Aztecs as a distraction force if convenient. (3) Another thing I forgot to mention: i'm currently in a very lucrative trade with the persians, with them giving me quite a bit of gpt for 4 luxuries, i will promptly end those trades the turn before war.

Make sure its after the 20 turn limit, or else EVERY other civ won't trade with you, fearing you might back out of the deal. Either wait for the deal to end (if it hasn't, propose a deal and check your active deals, that will tell you how you have to go), OR just goto war, this will end the deal for good. The lack of luxuries on the persian part will hinder controling their cities. You might be able to get most of their cities to go into revolt and stop them from building any more units.

And remember, send your guys strait to the captial, so that they can serve to you, Xerxes head on silver plate (providing you have bronze tech )