12-02-2002 06:46									#1
	Should I Buy CivIII? Put an end to popups!

I've only got money for one game in the next month and a half or so. Basically I'm wondering if I should pick CivIII over whatever else is out there, and so I wanted to get a feel for how much you think you like it all these months after release.

So should I buy it? Improvement over civ2, with the patch maybe? I'm also looking for a fairly detailed diplomacy model that can't be exploited all the time, unlike some of the previous ones we've seen in the civ series before. (do those portraits in the screenshots actually move or not?)

Thanks.

Last edited by Wiglaf on 12-02-2002 at 06:53

	12-02-2002 07:37									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes, I think it's a worthy purchase for the money, but more than likely you will be dissapointed as to how the game is. The reason why I think it is a worthy purchase is because the game is worth the money, but the game doesn't live up to the Civ series, IMO. I think you might be best off waiting a while to play Civ3 and getting a fresh start with Civ3 when it's more complete. However, if you feel no reason to wait for that reason, then I would at least see what happens within the next month (i.e. any word for a patch release, if a patch even comes out, if the patch is even useful, etc...). That's my outtake on the position you should use if deciding to purchase Civ3.

	12-02-2002 07:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's kind of a 50/50 call right now. The general attitude is that it's a good game but there are some problems, which they're working on right now. No one knows right now when the next patch will be out, though my guess is no sooner than a month and no later than 2, maybe 3. However, there is a bit of a learning curve involved so by the time you start feeling comfortable with it, the patch may be out. Who knows?

As for whether it's an improvement? In most ways yes, but in other ways no. This is especially true when comparing it to Alpha Centauri. You'll certainly find the AI more of a challenge military wise at least. Which is where a lot of the learning curve comes in. I've read a number of Civ pros mention that they got their butt kicked the first little while. Even after you understand the strategies better, they can still put up a good fight for awhile. Though it's still no match for a human player who understands the game.

So what I suggest you do is toss a coin. It's worth getting it, but you might be better off waiting a month or so, until the patch is ready.

	12-02-2002 09:41									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wiglaf, I don't know when does Master of Orion III comes out (check it out on gaming sites maybe) but it seems to have more potential to me. Civ III had as much potential too, but it made less than what it could have been IMHO (in my humble opinion). The diplomacy isn't realist to me... I played some turn-based strategy games that were with human players and diplomacy wasn't like this or close (of course, I expect more from humans...). MOO3 will come out with multiplayer and its diplomatic seems very nice. There also could be Europa Universalis II that you could look at. Just go at www.gamespot.com to see what are present games if you want, and make a search on EU II.

	12-02-2002 09:49									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I would say, eventually buy the Gold Edition of Civ 3 (that will include all the patches, mods, editors, MP, etc). That will be a worthwhile buy. Civ 3 right now has many good things, but many bad things as well. Is it worth paying full price? Not as it stands right now. Maybe wait until it falls to half its price and pick it up then.

For half the money, you can purchase EU2 now, and it stands head and shoulders above Civ 3. If you want strategy, complexity, politics, economics, wars, religions, and diplomacy all wrapped up in an elegant interface, on a beautiful world map, with excellent unit animations and music, then this is the game to play. It spans the years from 1419 to 1819. You can play one of 200 countries! And all of the countries have their own provinces, military, alliances, religions, etc. So the replayability is awesome.

You could probably buy two games for the price of Civ3 right now. Check out the thread on "What other games are comparable to Civ3" thread for other ideas.

But make no mistake - the Civ 3 Gold Edition, if it includes everything it should, will be a worthwhile purchase later

	12-02-2002 10:09									#6
	Suffering from ads?

I've had the game a couple of months and reckon there's a lot more to it than most folk realise. Compared to previous versions at about this stage I'd be a bit bored by now...it would simply be a matter of refining a fairly straightforward strategy to beat the AI, without cheating, at all but the two highest levels. This version is a real challenge that'll keep you busy until the next patch comes out.

The diplomacy is a busy and useful aspect of the game but, as you'll have read, has not yet been fully developed along with some other aspects of the game design. If these are even half-way addressed in future patches I'll be hooked for a year. As it stands this could happen anyway but the only fly in the ointment is the late game which can be a grind. But wasn't this always the case...and this is a strategy game, not a shoot em up.

For a rush job put out to catch the Christmas market this is a good game anyway but I'd anticipate the patches to really beef it up ;-)

Taxi

	12-02-2002 10:28									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I recommend waiting, as Civ3 lacks a scenario editor and Multiplayer. However, if you do not play scenarios and don't play MP, then it may be a worthwhile purchase.

I also recommend that you NOT purchase the "Limited" Edition, as the "extras" in it are not worth the extra $ coughed up for it.

	12-02-2002 11:04									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah, the portraits move. You can see them getting madder and madder as you insult them. It's pretty cool.

Don't get it if you have a junkbox obsolete computer. You want to exceed the minimum requirements.

It's always smart to wait to buy games because they sometimes get cheaper. My buddy saw Europa Universalis in the bargain bin for 2 bucks. He didn't get it.

Back to Civ 3. It's a good game, pretty fun as strategy games go, and can be addictive. I've gotten the money's worth bigtime, and I can't think of a better way to spend entertainment money.

That's just me.

	12-02-2002 11:45									#9
	Definite Yes (your mileage may vary) Got spare money?

Yes, get the game, but:

If you don't have a 700+MHz computer you may be disappointed at how few civs you can have in the game without it bogging down.

If you can't tolerate a unit with the image and name of "Spearman" defeating a cavalry or a tank (very rare, of course), your mileage may diminish. (You have probably read plenty of those threads here already).

Large games CAN have long periods of tedium during peacetime in the late Industrial and Modern eras. Depends on how much you want to micromanage as all there is to do is take care of your workers and clean up pollution.

----
I play on huge maps and don't go for the quick win. I enjoy being a builder, and a destroyer when it's necessary for the good of my civ. I sort of play it as an adventure game, being my civ's steward, and my games can easily last 6 weeks or more. I am currently on only my 4th game and I've been playing 2+ hours/day average since 10/31/01 (I'm single, work office hours). I bought a 1.3GHz machine to play Civ, and while my addiction is less, I still enjoy the game enormously. For me, it's the only computer game I play.

BTW, I've seen the Limited Edition for the same price as the standard edition (CompUSA)!

	12-02-2002 11:52									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Depends, if one has a GeForce type graphic card, I guess, unless some other cards have drivers that will work. My ATI did not.

Then one has to restart the computer after playing everytime.

Other than that, I am still trying to get through a game.

It will take a while since I do not have all that much time.

Otherwise, it will take some time to relearn, perhaps, over Civ 2.

It is different but not different, but harder it seems.

Little tricks, I guess, I am looking to learn to keep myself in the game.

That is on Regent level, Warlock is a little easier, perhaps.

It still is a funny game, and will get you involved, depending on what type of game you play. 5 ways to win, or different combinations, + special unit for each civ if that option is on.

	12-02-2002 12:07									#11
	Re: Should I Buy CivIII? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf I've only got money for one game in the next month and a half or so. Basically I'm wondering if I should pick CivIII over whatever else is out there, and so I wanted to get a feel for how much you think you like it all these months after release. So should I buy it? Improvement over civ2, with the patch maybe? I'm also looking for a fairly detailed diplomacy model that can't be exploited all the time, unlike some of the previous ones we've seen in the civ series before. (do those portraits in the screenshots actually move or not?) Thanks.

hmmm.... [...rubbing hands together...] nah, I won't!

Civ3's cool, I think you should buy it!

Charles.

	12-02-2002 12:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If I never see another of Charlie's posts I won't suffer from it.

	12-02-2002 14:59									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If I never see another of Charlie's posts I won't suffer from it.

You know you'll miss me.

Charles.

	12-02-2002 15:02									#14
	Remove this text

maybe.

	12-02-2002 15:47									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: I've gotten the money's worth bigtime, and I can't think of a better way to spend entertainment money.

Having just returned from Las Vegas, I can see that your statement explains quite much.

	12-02-2002 15:49									#16
	Remove this text

A yes from me too.

I have also gotten my money's worth with CivIII. You can get a lot of fun with it if you use it wise, but a lot of frust if you use it wrong though. Read the Apolyton strategy forum mainly, mostly the older threads, to get "the feeling". You may do this even not possessing the game yet, just to look if this is what you want. And look out for fixes and patches, it's worth the effort .

OT: Charley, what did you smoke? Can I have a toke of it?

	12-02-2002 15:52									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Standard Yin Answer: The game as it stands is a Beta. If that doesn't bother you, give it a go. If you like games to be complete, well thought-out and challenging in the good sense of the word, wait for the Gold Edition.

	12-02-2002 15:55									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

One word: Probably not

	12-02-2002 15:59									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: You can get a lot of fun with it if you use it wise, but a lot of frust if you use it wrong though.

Right.

While you slog through your turns in the modern age, Wiglaf, keep in mind that your strategy morphs from the boring exercise of building a civilization to the rewarding experience of cleaning pollution as you chase down that enemy settler who escaped four thousand years ago to a tiny arctic island on your pangea map.

	12-02-2002 16:04									#20
	Tired of ads?

Although it is rushed, I am still mightily enjoying it. It is definitly a good Civilization game, albeit not so earth shattering as its predecessors. Its quality is IMHO for example illustrated by the fact that since playing CivIII, I would not want to return to playing plain vanilla CivII. The best reason not to buy it is to exert the little power that you as a costumer have, and "punish" them for bringing out a rushed product by not buying it. In the end, I thus would say, WAIT.

	12-02-2002 17:15									#21
	Remove this text

buy it

	12-02-2002 17:20									#22
	Tired of ads?

Yes, Infogreed deserves your hard-earned cash.

	12-02-2002 17:23									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Civ III is a playable game, but if you only have the money for one pick and you do not yet have EU2 I recommend you try that first. Then buy Master of Orion 3 if it has been released and lives up to expectation. By the time you have the money for a third game, patch 2 should be out and thoroughly understood.

	12-02-2002 17:31									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

As much as I hate saying this, Id recommend waiting until at least the next patch and/or editor is out. The game is good, but not anywhere near where it should (and could) be.

	12-02-2002 17:35									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by DrFell One word: Probably not

Aaah, that was two words.

	12-02-2002 17:37									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Darn, I knew I shoulda counted.

	12-02-2002 17:38									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I only have a useless answer for you: it depends.

If you're looking for a civ3 type game, then civ3 is probably the best around. I play it a lot and usually manage to work around the problems.
For example, the fact that seed numbers are saved in the saved game file now means that the combat will be the same every time. So if you're looking for a leader run test combats until you find one you win, reload and do that one again with an elite unit and maybe you'll get a leader. You can cheat with saved seeds as well as without, the cheating is just different.
Civ3 is not brilliant. It is more a civ2.5 (as has been said before). It reminds me more of a testing ground for new ideas (diplomacy, luxuries, resources, insane corruption) than a really new game. a 'let's see what the punters make of this' type game.
But, when push comes to shove, I play it and I enjoy it.

But, if I were in your position and could only buy one game at this point it would probably not be civ3. It would be Medal of Honour. Although the grass is always greener and maybe I will be disapointed once I have MOHAA. Who knows?

Robert

	12-02-2002 17:50									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

I would conclude that a tentative consensus is emerging to wait.

	12-02-2002 18:05									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'd say buy it (as long as you don't have any major work projects/essays/exams/ social life commitments in the next month or so).

This game is so good.

If you're computer is less than sh$t hot, don't worry you can still play with 16 civs as long as it's not on a huge map, as I think it's map size more than civ number that slows the machine down.

Pingu:

	12-02-2002 22:12									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I guess I'll wait for the next patch and then buy it, just because it's hard to be totally sure. All the review sites are giving it near perfect scores, though...ign, gamespot, avault, etc. If it's even a minor improvement to civ2, I'd like it (it's not a huge step down or anything, is it?), but for now I'll probably look into EU2 and watch civIII closely.

Thanks again.