13-02-2002 09:04									#31
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Not just red_jon and starchild. there are also the bisexuals, don't leave them out. heh. . .

	13-02-2002 10:10									#32
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Well, if someone is actually keeping score.... I too am Gay, or at least my lover thinks so.

	13-02-2002 10:19									#33
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The sample size in the study of hypothalamic nuclei in homosexuals was extremely small, small enough that it wouldn't be statisitically representative. A number of subsequent studies have failed to reproduce the original results.

	13-02-2002 10:32									#34
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Two male friends of mine met a pair of bisexual girls at a party, and the girls insisted that my friends had to make out with each other before they'd get sex out of the girls "because they [my friends] had to free their minds" or something. My friends tried to explain to the girls that they were not homosexual or bisexual, but the girls made fun of them and said something like "You really are bisexual, you just don't think that you are because society has constricted you. Break free from society's bounds and embrace your bisexuality!" One last time, my friends tried to explain that they were heterosexual not because of society, but because they just didn't find men sexually attractive. The girls just wouldn't believe that it was possible that people could be strictly heterosexual.

Although I'm at a loss as to what this has to do with Dissident being happy...

	13-02-2002 11:12									#35
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yes I am happy.

As for being gay, I just can't make the grade. While I'm perfectly comfortable looking at men naked, I just don't find them attractive. I have even been to gay bars, and seen gay pornography. I don't worry about what people think of that anymore. I might have when I was younger. Sometimes I thought it would be easier to be gay, because I can connect much better with males than females. I prefer to talk politics and sports over fashion and boy bands .

But my theory is if you are truelly heterosexual then you should have no problem being in a room full of naked guys. Of course I have done that- but that was in the context of gyms and shower rooms.

I truelly believe that most homophobes do have latent homosexual desires. I won't say all of them do, some just have weird religious views against homosexuality.

But it is good to test oneself. I have been in rooms fool of naked women, and in rooms full of naked men. It didn't take a genius to figure out which one I belonged in

	13-02-2002 11:16									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Sometimes I thought it would be easier to be gay, because I can connect much better with males than females. I prefer to talk politics and sports over fashion and boy bands .

Not all gays enjoy talking about fashion and boy bands.
In fact, some absolutely hate boy bands and have no clue about fashion.

	13-02-2002 11:17									#37
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I forgot to address the bisexuality issue in that post. That is a tricky one. One reason to test oneself is to see if there are some urges for the same sex. Most likely in that case you could be bisexual.

But I disagree with an earlier post that says most homosexuals are forced by society to stay with the same sex. I believe that they just don't find the opposite sex attractive. While some people find both sexes attractive. I do believe there are key differences in brain chemistry.

edit: and yes I was over generalizing above. I used a smiley to help show that . I suppose if I was atttracted to men, I'd have to look long and hard (no pun intended) for a man who likes american football, beer, politics, world domination, and fast cars.

	14-02-2002 02:13									#38
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What about the theory that your first sexual experience determines your sexuality?

I'm honestly not sure, all I know is that it isn't choice (and I hate it when people EG MY MOTHER say I need to have sex with a girl before I know for sure - I know who I'm attracted to!).

	14-02-2002 02:15									#39
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon What about the theory that your first sexual experience determines your sexuality? I'm honestly not sure, all I know is that it isn't choice (and I hate it when people EG MY MOTHER say I need to have sex with a girl before I know for sure - I know who I'm attracted to!).

I think in many cases it might affect it

Jon Miller

	14-02-2002 02:16									#40
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asher: it compared bi's to ambidextrous people

	14-02-2002 02:17									#41
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I'm sort of ambidextrous - I only use my left hand for writing and drawing as my right hand is stronger.

	14-02-2002 02:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin asher: it compared bi's to ambidextrous people

I don't call that very scientific.

	14-02-2002 02:19									#43
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I'm so not ambidextrous.
I'm left handed though.

	14-02-2002 02:21									#44
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in the studies I have seen there is no link between bi and amnidexterous

there did seem to be a link between a risk taking gene and more partners of both sexes

(but then I do not beleive bi is genetic, rather I think it is hedonists or mixed up gay/straights)

Jon Miller

	14-02-2002 02:22									#45
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I certainly don't have that risk taking gene.

	14-02-2002 11:18									#46
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no no no...the text book used it like an analogy

	14-02-2002 12:25									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I do know it's not a choice. Why anyone would choose being gay or bi is beyond me, it complicates life and ****s with you throughout your childhood. It's not very pleasant at all.

Because it's a great way to pi$$ off your parents. I've known so many straight people who went through a 'gay phase' in their teens or early 20s and ended up going straight again. There's even an Onion story (within the last couple of issues) making fun of this common syndrome. In fact of the people I have known, going through a gay phase is far more common than actually being homosexual without eventually blowing it off, getting married and having kids, especially among women.

Do homosexuals exist? Sure, they say they do, and I've known enough of them to believe it. Is everyone who says they are a homosexual really predetermined by biology to be one? No way, even if those biological theories are correct I am willing to wager that they have nothing to do with a majority of people who declare their homosexuality at college.

	14-02-2002 12:32									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Because it's a great way to pi$$ off your parents. I've known so many straight people who went through a 'gay phase' in their teens or early 20s and ended up going straight again. There's even an Onion story (within the last couple of issues) making fun of this common syndrome. In fact of the people I have known, going through a gay phase is far more common than actually being homosexual without eventually blowing it off, getting married and having kids, especially among women.

That's great and all, but it's kinda bullshitty.
Some of us have known all of our lives, so it's more than a "spite the parents" kind of bullshit thing.

quote: Do homosexuals exist? Sure, they say they do, and I've known enough of them to believe it. Is everyone who says they are a homosexual really predetermined by biology to be one? No way, even if those biological theories are correct I am willing to wager that they have nothing to do with a majority of people who declare their homosexuality at college.

Well, I think it's kind of ignorant to make a blanket statement like that based upon your groups of friends and your own experiences. The vast majority of homosexuals or bisexuals I've known have known for as long as they can remember, they don't declare themselves gay or bi in college just for fun or experimentation.

However, I'm pretty sure a lot of guys do experiment in college and end up being straight. Whatever, that's up to them, but I don't think they constitute the majority by a long shot.

	14-02-2002 13:50									#49
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Asher,

Let me know how you feel when you are my age (40) and have known many people for a long time. I didn't start out thinking this way, I bought into biological gay theory to some extent, mostly because like you I had a number of gay friends, and some of my friends vehemently espoused it. I have since realized that vehemence makes for lousy science. I am still open to evidence of a biological element to homosexuality, but I honestly just don't see the evidence for that, Mr. Fun's research paper notwithstanding.

Anyway, by the time I was in my mid twenties I became convinced that for every person out there who is solidly gay, there are several who are merely trying something out, or sexually ambivalent. The majority of these people end up heterosexual, which makes sense considering how much easier it is to do so many things (including making love, or having children) if you have the more common and acceptable orientation.

As for the pissing off the parent thing, don't be too quick to rule that out. It sounds immature (and it is), but I have seen teenagers do exactly this, right on through going public at school and having sex. I'll grant you that this is less common by the time people hit college, but it still does happen.

As for whether your anecdotal experiences or mine are more accurate, we'll have to let that hang until we can find some solid research. A lot of studies show that a fairly large percentage (30% +) of men have had homosexual experiences, while only about 5% of men are considered homosexuals. But not everyone who has a sexual experience with a man decides even temporarily that they are gay, much less tells everyone else, so this isn't really conclusive. But I still stand by my statement that a majority of people who suddenly 'realize' that they are gay in college will not be shown to have a biologically determined homosexuality. The huge assumption here is that there is such a thing in the first place. If such a thing doesn't exist then we shall be tortured into our graves by the arguments. The negative cannot be proved, and many gays feel they need the biological theory to be proven for many reasons.

	14-02-2002 13:51									#50
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Iam both extremely happy and gay.


I'm am quite certain that it is not just genetics that determine what you become. It is a mixture of predisposition and the situation in which you were raised

	14-02-2002 13:56									#51
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Sikander: No point arguing with you, you've made your mind already and there's no evidence to support it really either way so I can't debate.

quote: Originally posted by poison_flower I'm am quite certain that it is not just genetics that determine what you become. It is a mixture of predisposition and the situation in which you were raised

I think it may be.
Although it's not always true. I've always played sports, I've had a father around for a male rolemodel who is pretty ordinary, I've never been sexually abused or anything like that either. So I don't see any factors in my environment that would make me bi, it's just quite plainly obvious to me that my mind doesn't base attractiveness based on sex. It's like a missing link or something in my brain. That's why I'm pretty much in favor of the bio-theory behind it, because really there's no other explanation I see for myself.

	14-02-2002 16:13									#52
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Do indentical twins have the same sexuality?

	14-02-2002 16:31									#53
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Speaking of gays and bis(?). They are the best friends and people in parties. At least here in Finland. But heterosexuals are the ones who ususally give me trouble. They are the ones who are annoing and have stupid opinions about gays.
I'm writing this because aprox 4 months ago we had a little debacle in our parliament, when our MPs (members of parliament) voted wether or not gay couples should have the legalright to register they relationship. IE they could have the same (almost,no adoption) full legalrights as heterosexual married couple.
Thankfully that legislation passed, pretty narrowly but it did pass.
Therefore I'm not ashamed to be a Finn. There's still a lot to be done about social equality, but the progress is slow...
And if someone is wondering,yes I'm heterosexual,at least that's what I think I am.
Terse suomalaisille kanssaihmisille!

	14-02-2002 16:35									#54
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Do indentical twins have the same sexuality?

In my sexual fantasies they are always bisexual.

	14-02-2002 19:27									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander In my sexual fantasies they are always bisexual.

And incestual, I take it.

	14-02-2002 19:34									#56
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Hey, what ever floats your boat



I am still confused bout the whole homosexal thing tho

	14-02-2002 21:15									#57
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(on identical twins)
I have heard of two pairs of identical male twins where one is entirely gay and one is entirely straight.

(on the hypothalamus)
devilmunchkin, I've read that too. What I was more interested in was it's function. Doesn't it have some bearing with how strongly we feel emotions?

(on being gay)
Angelina Jolie or nowt.

(some gay men are evil)
Oh, I thought I'd try it with a woman once, but I didn't enjoy it at all.

Uh, isn't that like really cruel to sleep with a woman because you feel you ought where as she may feel that there is love there.

I blame the women, actually. They set themselves up for stuff like that.