14-02-2002 07:25									#121
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Willem I know they're still working on it. Mike, I think that's his name, answered a query from some poster and he mentioned that he was focusing on being able to have civ specific starting points, and the ability of placing units/cities on the map.

Yes, I'm still working on it (right now, actually). I've also added a handful of other features to the editor but they didn't make it in time for this patch. I have not abandoned the editor and continue to work on adding features on a daily basis. Some features take longer to implement than others.

	14-02-2002 07:26									#122
	Tired of ads?

We can give 'go-to' command to every unit of the same type on the square, but we cannot give 'keep together' command to two different unit yet.
It will be nice if we have tell a battleship to 'keep together' with a carrier.

	14-02-2002 07:38									#123
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by star mouse This looks like a BIC change to me: * Civ-specific units are now part of the regular upgrade chain.

Not really, you can do that now in the editor. They just made it official.

	14-02-2002 07:41									#124
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Yes, I'm still working on it (right now, actually). I've also added a handful of other features to the editor but they didn't make it in time for this patch. I have not abandoned the editor and continue to work on adding features on a daily basis. Some features take longer to implement than others.

so we get the same old editor till the next patch?

oh well. keep working... perhaps the editor should have it's own series of patches

* pauli hopes for an increased max for civ spacing... 32 just isn't enough for 256x256 maps...

	14-02-2002 07:53									#125
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS Yes, I'm still working on it (right now, actually). I've also added a handful of other features to the editor but they didn't make it in time for this patch. I have not abandoned the editor and continue to work on adding features on a daily basis. Some features take longer to implement than others.

Thanks for the reply, I hope you don't mind a suggestion. It would be nice if we could have multiple lines of buildings being replaced, like you have now with the Power Plants. I'm not sure how it could be done but it would be a nice feature. Looking forward to your upcoming changes.

	14-02-2002 08:01									#126
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by pauli so we get the same old editor till the next patch?

No, some of the features made it in time; the biggest being undo/redo support which helps quite a bit when making maps. I believe there were a few optimizations and interface improvements in there as well.

quote: /me hopes for an increased max for civ spacing... 32 just isn't enough for 256x256 maps...

Hmmm... ok. This would take, literally, 2 seconds to change.

	14-02-2002 08:10									#127
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: * The procedure for checking if the CD is in the drive has been changed to search all possible CD drives on a machine instead of simply the drive they installed the game from.

Please give me a moment as I swear obsenities............

Thank you, you may now bring the children back to the thread.

The reason for this is because a month ago I installed a 2nd HD for my computer, and I had to ******g reinstall EVERYTHING (for those who are not familiar with how the computer works, if you install a 2nd HD, its automaticly gets the drive letter after the 1st HD, so my D:\ CD drive turned to E:\)!!! Since all my programs INCLUDING CIV3 only check from the cd drive that is was installed from.

One question though , I usualy don't use my 2nd HD (mostly cause its just backup files), it is usually turned off for power saving, if I run Civ3, is it going to turn on the HD, read it, find out that its not a CD drive, and then go on to the next one. If this is the case, I might just skip this and any future patches, for the sake of my 2HD, which I don't want turned on/off/on/off/on/off all day, every time I run the game. Sooner or later, that's going to kill it.

	14-02-2002 08:13									#128
	Inflate your Upload Space

To Mike or Soren,

First of all thankyou for taking an interest in the ideas and questions of the fans here at the forum. It shows that you really care about this game (like I had ANY doubt!!)

Just a couple of questions:

1) You mentioned how the improved editor will have a placement tool for cities and units, but from having read the posts of MANY scenario writers, the next big thing on their wish-list is some sort of scripting language, particularly for scenario events! So I was just wondering whether you will be including this feature in a future patch?

2) In SMAC, allies were able to house units in each others cities, fortresses etc. Will this feature be brought back, even as an option, in a future patch?

3) In Civ2, when a Civs capital city was taken, a civil war would ensue. Again, would there be ANY chance of bringing this back in a future patch (again, just as an option)?

Any answers you could give me on these matters would be most helpful.
Thanks in Advance!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	14-02-2002 08:15									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS Yes, I'm still working on it (right now, actually). I've also added a handful of other features to the editor but they didn't make it in time for this patch. I have not abandoned the editor and continue to work on adding features on a daily basis. Some features take longer to implement than others.

Good to hear the editor's going to get a bit of a makeover in a future patch. One little feature a lot of people would like to see in the Editor is some improvement to the map generation, such as a map zoom and a mini-map.

I would like to see some control in the editor over the frequency of bonus resources in a BIC file. I have noticed that bonus resources can be fairly rare, and I would like to make them more common if needed. All that is needed is a single number that denotes "frequency of appearance", with 0 = random, 10 = every 10th eligible square, 5 = every 5th eligible square and so forth. (setting to 1 is not a good idea, so make this value invalid).

	14-02-2002 08:15									#130
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Flight I mean, how often in a game to you want one of your units to wake up when one of your own passes by? Yet this is given the 'y' hotkey and the far more used enemy-only wakeup is relegated to 'shift & y' which is a much harder order to give. It was said above but i thought i'd clarify for your benefit friendly unit in this ocntext means another civ's unit - not your units (presumably) sounds like a great patch, covers everything i wanted that i can think of right now and some more. Even fixed my bug (civil disorder popup crash) nice one firaxis but of course the editor needs its own patch

Ok I phrased it badly but I still maintain that it is far more common to sleep units until hostiles are about. When you've got peaceful AI scouts trawling up and down coastlines and borders "exploring" and settlers looking for places to settle I don't want my units waking up all the time. I can issue 'y' with one hand while the other stays on the mouse but shift-y is a 2 hand effort. It'll be irrelevant if the unit has two new clickable icons for these new orders.

TechWins, I'm not going to test it myself because the key changes mentioned (random retreats even if you've saved a movement point, no pop rush) would infuriate me even more while the one I currently hate most (AI trading during in your turn) is not mentioned as fixed. Stacked movement of identical units via a keyboard command that has to be issued every turn rather than a true form of grouping is not sufficient payoff to put up with the existing or new frustrations. When the editor allows me to turn off these new ideas I'll check out the full package. There are better games to play in the meantime and I can always check back here for balanced and unbalanced opinions of the work in progress

	14-02-2002 08:19									#131
	Increase Your PM Length

It seems to me that this patch is mainly aimed at bringing the functionality of Civ3 back up to the average user. It should allow us to play properly. IMO firaxis will release another patch soon which is more of an addition/modification patch.

I just hope that the corruption problem has been addressed.

	14-02-2002 08:28									#132
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS [Increased max for civ spacing] would take, literally, 2 seconds to change.

Have the max civ spacing dependent on the map size and maximum number of civilisations. There will be obvious problems when the minimum civ spacing is greater than the size of the map. There are also less obvious problems when the possible number of positions available on the map as determined by the setting for minimum spacing is less than the maximum number of civs.

A maximum value equal to

SQRT ( (MAP X * MAP Y) / NUMBER_OF_CIVS )

could work, but testing will be needed to check this.

	14-02-2002 09:18									#133
	-- Remove this text

First off, yes, the *original* civ2 came with the ability to create scenarios. In fact, one of their first releases in the expansion forte, if you'll recall, included the top ten best scenarios created by us players. I guess it's just that Firaxis doesn't care, and that [microprose] did care about the players and not the money.

Secondly, thanks to Firaxis for actually responding to the threads here, but being vague when it comes to editor fixes. I have one simple question Dan: Is there going to be player specific starting locations, and unit/city creation available in the editor? Everyone has wanted to know - just simply say yes or no, and we'll be happy with *any* answer.

It's sad to read through the forum and find how very many of us have put the game away - I know the same happened to civ2, but I know personally I never did so, and I know quite a few more people seemed to keep on playing, because of the ability to modify the game. Just my 2 cents.


-rflagg.

	14-02-2002 09:25									#134
	Re: -- Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by rflagg I have one simple question Dan: Is there going to be player specific starting locations, and unit/city creation available in the editor? Everyone has wanted to know - just simply say yes or no, and we'll be happy with *any* answer.

Well if you had read this thread carefully, you'd realize that "Mike" is now working on this ability. It always helps to find out the facts before you make an ass of yourself.

	14-02-2002 09:28									#135
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 One question though , I usualy don't use my 2nd HD (mostly cause its just backup files), it is usually turned off for power saving, if I run Civ3, is it going to turn on the HD, read it, find out that its not a CD drive, and then go on to the next one. If this is the case, I might just skip this and any future patches, for the sake of my 2HD, which I don't want turned on/off/on/off/on/off all day, every time I run the game. Sooner or later, that's going to kill it.

It shouldn't. Your OS knows which devices are fixed HDDs and which are removeable CD drives without having to perform any actual I/O on them.

	14-02-2002 09:52									#136
	Tired of ads?

quote: [Increased max for civ spacing] would take, literally, 2 seconds to change. <http://apolyton.net/b.gif> Have the max civ spacing dependent on the map size and maximum number of civilisations. There will be obvious problems when the minimum civ spacing is greater than the size of the map. There are also less obvious problems when the possible number of positions available on the map as determined by the setting for minimum spacing is less than the maximum number of civs. A maximum value equal to SQRT ( (MAP X * MAP Y) / NUMBER_OF_CIVS ) could work, but testing will be needed to check this.

just for clarity... the max civ spacing in question is just the maximum value you can assign in the editor per map size. ie, it's 32 now, so no map size can have the civ spacing be above 32. the *max* doesn't need to change per map size - it just needs to change overall. the actual per size setting is what your idea would presumably apply to.

	14-02-2002 09:55									#137
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by TechWins Lib, could you just give it a break for once? Your constant stating of your position on Civ3 is starting to get quite repetitive. Every thread you take part in doesn't have to turn into a discussion about your feelings does it? Now I'm not suggesting that you can't post your feelings, in all honesty I could careless, however, I think there is a more fitting place to do that in - OT.

Then why didn't you post yours there? Everybody here, including you, is posting his feelings. I suggest you discipline your own eyeballs if you have a problem with my posts.

	14-02-2002 10:00									#138
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Firaxis, we all appreciate the work you've done on the new patch.

I personally have no interest in scenario building, multiplayer, or editor functions. I just want to play a balanced game. Along those lines, I was disappointed that AI tech trading during the player turn was not addressed in this patch.

Would you comment on the AI tech-trading during the player turn that appeared after the 1.16f patch? Is this a bug or not? Since this was not documented in the release notes of that patch, many people assume it is a bug.

Some people thought AI tech trading out-of-turn might have been added to counter the so-called "exploit" that allowed a player to sell the same tech to every civilization on his turn. Many people, however, did not feel that being able to do this was an exploit since the AI can do the same thing on it's turn. At the very least, if you leave it this way allow the player to initiate diplomacy during the AI's turn to balance things out.

Thanks again for the patch!

	14-02-2002 10:03									#139
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I can issue 'y' with one hand while the other stays on the mouse but shift-y is a 2 hand effort.

Get bigger hands?

Ummm, sorry. That's almost rude. No, that is rude, but I'll leave it.

I don't have a problem shift+ any letter on the key board. Takes some extra effort, yes. But I can do it. Use pinky and index, or thumb and pinky, depending on the key combo. Shift+y? It isn't even a stretch.

Unfortunately, some of you may lack an upgradable version of the human hand. Sorry.

Salve

	14-02-2002 10:27									#140
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Stack movement! OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy!

If any of you think this won't help, have you ever moved 12 or 16 or 24 workers around to clean pollution? Heh.

Or clicked and clicked and clicked as you moved stacks to their campaign start positions?

Or wanted to rebase one of your major air forces to the other side of the world?

Or moved a major fleet around?

For my style of play, with this game, their implementation is great! I wouldn't have thought of it, but I'm happy they did.

Pick a unit, hit j, click goal. Gone! Wonderful. I don't have to assign units to groups, that can be tedious if I remember CTP2 correctly. Now, CTP2 armies in combat, that's another story (great) but alas, we're not going to get that in a patch, if ever with Civ3.

Having to pick the Infantry, move them, and then the Tanks? I feel very burdened by this. Somewhat less burdened than when I had to move all 4 Inf and 8 Tanks 1 by 1.

Salve

	14-02-2002 10:31									#141
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Firaxis implemented group movement the right way. In fact, what other way would be deterministic?

	14-02-2002 10:51									#142
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This patch sounds really good. I'll remain a little cautious until I try it but I am looking forward to it.

quote: but shift-y is a 2 hand effort

It is? You must have very tiny hands.

quote: Property ownership is the only ethical means for establishing rights.

Now there's a scary thought. So a homeless person has no rights? This isn't what you really meant, is it?

Sorry . . . off topic.

	14-02-2002 11:02									#143
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Do you think real-estate is the only sort of property there is? Does he not own his own life? His own mind? His own body? In fact, these were his original property which he could have used peacefully and honestly to acquire more. If a man is free from the coercion and fraud of others, then his property (and rights) status is a direct effect of his own volition.

	14-02-2002 11:09									#144
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by pauli just for clarity... the max civ spacing in question is just the maximum value you can assign in the editor per map size. ie, it's 32 now, so no map size can have the civ spacing be above 32. the *max* doesn't need to change per map size - it just needs to change overall. the actual per size setting is what your idea would presumably apply to.

not quite ... my formula provides a reasonable shot at a maximum value for the minimum distance between civs that always ensures the users set sane combinations, and is flexible enough to allow rather large distances on large maps. It is a reasonably accurate formula that gives the maximum possible minimum distance between any two civs on a map, given the map dimensions and number of civs. It is intended to replace the hardcoded maximum of 32, not the individual values (which are usually less).

Suppose we were creating an "itty bitty" map size, 40 x 40, 4 civs. A limit with the constant value of 32 is too large here, and is likely to cause problems if CIV3 doesn't perform good sanity tests. My formula would enforce a maximum distance of 20 in the editor, but the mod maker would probably choose a closer distance.

Or suppose we're creating a "gigantic" map size, 256 x 256, 16 civs. My formula would impose a maximum distance of 64 here, but again, the mod maker will probably choose a lesser value.

	14-02-2002 11:12									#145
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Lib - Okay, I gotcha now. Thanks for the clarification . . . I did view the word "property" as strictly in terms of real estate which is why I was startled by your statement.

	14-02-2002 14:16									#146
	Increase the size of your Attachments

How come there's no mention of the ability to sink ships? with bombard or planes?
But apart from that it does look great, it will be nice to try

	14-02-2002 14:41									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker How come there's no mention of the ability to sink ships? with bombard or planes? But apart from that it does look great, it will be nice to try

With all due respect, quite a few people actually LIKE the fact that air units cannot sink ships.

	14-02-2002 14:56									#148
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The list of improvements looks very intriguing. Most download...

Thank you Firaxians for your work!

	14-02-2002 15:55									#149
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 The reason for this is because a month ago I installed a 2nd HD for my computer, and I had to ******g reinstall EVERYTHING (for those who are not familiar with how the computer works, if you install a 2nd HD, its automaticly gets the drive letter after the 1st HD, so my D:\ CD drive turned to E:\

Question: Why dont you just set the drive to use a different letter??

	14-02-2002 16:09									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Let me just say, as one of those who has expressed my dismay with the lack of Firaxian response to the questions about the game, that I'm happy to see most of the burning problems addressed with this patch. Well done.

I'm even happier to see that so many people from Firaxis have been active with answers and comments in this thread. It boosts my confidence in the belief that Firaxis will eventually patch the game to become the classic it deserves to be.

While I, personally, won't reinstall Civ3 for this - I'll wait for the next patch, I think, since I'm mostly interested in scenario editing at this point, and there seems to be a few issues left to address - I can only register happiness that we begin to see the game that I'm sure Firaxis intended to deliver from scratch.

Well done, gentlemen!