14-02-2002 21:00									#1
	Effect of Disabling Conquest Victory on AI Hostilty? Full PM-box? Change here!

Recently, I played a game as Lal with only Transcendence Victory enabled.

As I usually do with the Peacekeepers, I relied heavily on my large bases surrounded by highly productive forrests, so from 2150 onwards I had always the largest population on Planet. Diplomatically, I stayed in character by being extremely cooperative with regard to tech trades and giving non-critical techs (i.e. anything other than fusion power, air superiority etc.) away for free. I even paid tribute when asked - only small amounts, as my Peecekeapers were so busy hurrying infrastructure that money hardly ever piled up.

Of course, Lal does not compromise about Democracy [insert Churchill-style speech], so I introduced Democracy-Planned-Knowledge SE-choices as soon as I could and sticked to them. With that and my unsurpassed position in the power charts, I was certain that sooner or later later someone would declare Vendetta despite my appeasing tech-share policy, but noone did. Sure, they called me names all the time, but noone actually attacked me.

There could be all sorts of explanations for this. I was playing on a large planet with (initially) 70-90 % ocean coverage; there was no land contact between the factions. Second in the power charts (and normally most likely to attack me) was Morgan, in whose favour I had intervened diplomatically before someone could seriously hurt him. (I'm not a fan of a huge military, but this Morgan guy spends so little on safety, he must have trouble getting insurance.) Morgan is a Pacifist, but that never stopped him in other games from attacking me for running a planned economy, even when he was much weaker than in this game.

So, I wonder: Does disabling Conquest Victory affect AI strategy and make it less hostile? I'm not asking whether disabling Conquest Victory will turn Yang & colleagues into peaceful builders. I'm sure it won't and in my game there would have been plenty of inter-AI conflict if I had not intervened diplomatically to keep, well, the peace. However, victory conditions could (and should actually) be a factor in determing the AI's play. I do want to know whether there is any hard evidence that it does. From my single game, it really is hard to tell.

Verrucosus

	14-02-2002 21:19									#2
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Sorry, I don't have a clue. This is the first time I've heard of someody turning conquest off in SP. I guess you're going to have to play that way multiple times to be able to report back to us.

	15-02-2002 00:57									#3
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double check your options - i dont believe you can turn off conquest. when you "turned off everything but trans", you turned off everything but trans that could be checked. my reasoning: you play a game with conquest off, and you conquer all other nations. what are they going to do to you? say you loose because you killed all others? or force you to do economic victory for 0 energy (because no enemy bases left)? make you sit alone and easily transcend? it doesnt make sense.

	15-02-2002 07:13									#4
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quote: Originally posted by moi double check your options - i dont believe you can turn off conquest. when you "turned off everything but trans", you turned off everything but trans that could be checked. my reasoning: you play a game with conquest off, and you conquer all other nations. what are they going to do to you? say you loose because you killed all others? or force you to do economic victory for 0 energy (because no enemy bases left)? make you sit alone and easily transcend?

I tried that a few weeks ago: you can turn off conquest as an option. After you have subjugated or eradicated the other factions, you could transcend or get yourself voted supremo. Didn't try economic, but it was probably turned off, too.

	15-02-2002 16:28									#5
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You CAN turn off any of the victory conditions. I do now and again to get a more interesting game. I usually go for a peaceful game and win by transcending, so to turn that option off and force myself into exploring other strategies and ways to win makes life more interesting

	15-02-2002 17:55									#6
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What if......

	18-02-2002 20:15									#7
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You can turn off Conquest Victory by disabling the "Total War" option in the custom rules menu before starting the game.

Turning it off does not mean you loose by eliminating all other factions; it just means you cannot win that way. I agree with moi that diplomatic or economic victory is not much of a challenge once you have no opponents left; this is not necessarily the case with Transcendence (e.g. after using a lot of planetbusters, planet itself will be left to fight you).

Anyway, my point was not that with conquest victory turned off it will be pointless to wage war - it will not. However, taking bases from other factions will no longer be an end in itself and, as a strategy for achieving some other type of victory, it will not always be the most efficient. When I pursue Diplomatic, Economic or Transcendence Victory, I worry a lot more about growing my bases, stockpiling energy and developing infrastructure than I do when I try to conquer the world. If the AI's strategy is affected in a similar manner, well, it would be interesting to know.

I will play a few more games with limited victory options, but with only 2-3 hours of playing each week (and a love for micromanagement) it will take a long time before I can come back with more than anecdotal (is that a word?) evidence.

Verrucosus

	19-02-2002 04:04									#8
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I've never turned off Conquest. I've turned off Transcendence because I despise it; but never the good old-fashioned human vs. human options.