15-02-2002 04:39									#1
	How about an undo command? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

to undo the last move you made??? sometimes i make an honest mistake and hit the wrong key, sending a unit somewhere that messes everything up... i have to go back to saves, it just happens too often... an undo key would fix that!

you could mark the savefiles with a flag, pertaining to whether or not the undo key had been used at any point during the game.

	15-02-2002 05:12									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yeah, I find that aggravating too. Especially when moving with the cursor keys, and I hold one down too long or a unit runs out of movement before I expect and I end up moving the next unit by mistake.

But an undo would lend itself too easily to exploits, so I just live with it and try to be careful.

I don't quite get the bit about flagging saves, though. What would it accomplish?

	15-02-2002 05:24									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think he might mean for tournaments, where take-backs would not be appropriate and could be interpreted as cheating. Since cheaters will seldom admit they've cheated, the flag would serve to identify their deed.

	15-02-2002 05:42									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It is annoying though when you are moving a trireme around, and instead of moving 1 square out to sea, it move 2 - leaving it unable to get back to safe coastal squares. Invariably the next turn it sinks.

However, what can they do to fix this... rather than slightly increasing the time before the unit will move again...

An undo key would lead to more exploitation than it would prevent.

	15-02-2002 06:55									#5
	Tired of ads?

more exploitation?? you can already achieve the effect of an undo-key through savegames. the game automatically saves every turn, so it's already giving you an undo-like ability. but in my opinion it's quite an inefficient way to go about it. if i give 15 orders to my troops, but screw up on the 16th, loading the autosave forces me to re-execute all 16 of those movements

an undo command would eliminate that idiocy

Last edited by DaXX on 15-02-2002 at 07:00

	15-02-2002 07:12									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, I can see the intent, I just don't think it will accomplish its intended goal. With Civ3, a simple save-reload from before the undo (or in place of it) will cover their tracks.

It really doesn't matter much to me. I play for fun, not to get a high score in a public tourney. If I do enter into competition in any game, it's genreally with people I trust. If it's open, I won't take it seriously unless I know it's regulated and monitored to prevent cheating as much as can be expected. I might participate in unregulated public contests, I just won't take them seriously.

	15-02-2002 07:32									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Oh, I get it now. Since you can't stop people from cheating anyway, why take away something convenient like an undo command. I don't know about that one. After all, we're only human, after all. Even though I consider myself somewhat of a gaming purist, I think I would eventually use it as a crutch, and become less and less careful what I do, knowing I can always undo if I end up in a bad situation. It'd lead to sloppy play, lack of forethought and planning, and eventual abuse. And then I wouldn't feel as good about the games I win, knowing I took some shortcuts to get there. I wouldn't want to, and wouldn't do it (much) at first, but I think I'm only being honest when I say I would eventually abuse it.

So even though I make stupid mistakes sometimes due to fat fingers, I still think I'd be happier without the undo button.

	15-02-2002 22:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

but that would be your choice, to use it or not to use it... you are claiming a lack of self-control.... what stops you from running out in the streets and murdering people? you are a human-being, man! you have will over your own actions!!!


the undo button in itself cannot be seen as bad, how you use undo button determines it's effectiveness

	15-02-2002 23:09									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

What you say is true, DaXX. I'm just giving an honest assessment of what I believe are the limits of my own self-control. Yes, I am a human being, and like all human beings, there are limits to my self-control. Certainly I am strong-willed enough not to go out into the streets mass-murdering people for no purpose (although I see no incentive for me to do it anyway). But I fear that for me, the temptation of the undo would just be too great. I play the game for fun, not to fill myself with the anxiety of resisting the temptation of an easy cheat. Even if I did resist actually using it, the anxiety it caused would ruin much of the fun of the game.

I'm not blaming the button, and not saying that anything is good or bad per se. I'm just saying that having an undo button available would make the game less fun for me personally, and as such I'm glad the game doesn't have one.

	15-02-2002 23:25									#10
	Suffering from ads?

Perhaps the answer then would be to make Undo an optional preference, such that it is in the saved game file as well. This would give Undo to those that want it, and allow it to be turned off in the saved games for GOTM and such.