15-02-2002 07:50									#1
	City Display screen Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Here is a quick sketch of the commerce section of the City display screen (I have no improvements yet):

15 Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

CCCCC------GGGGG-----5T--Tax revenue

--------------GGGGG-----5S--Science

----------------------------0---Luxeries

Key No1: G= gold piece icon
-----------C=corruption (coloured red)
-----------S=Beaker icon
-----------T=Treasury (chest) icon

Notice how many fields have G's in them; but thats the input, the gamer most wants to see the OUTPUT differences as you move people arround, use specialists etc.

I suggest it should be (IMHO)

Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGCCCCC
------------<%Rate->---<--calculation---------<-output->
Tax revenue:--50%-----[5G x M x B] + 0X = GGGGG
Science :-------50% ----[5G x L x U] + 0Z = SSSSS
Luxeries:-------0% ------OG @ # + 0E = 0

Key No2.:
M=marketplace icon(with multiplier in small text underneath) , B=Bank icon
L=library icon (with multiplier underneath), U=University icon
x= multiply sign
X= tax collector icon
Z= scientist icon
E= entertainer icon
@ and # are connected luxeries.

And yes I am aware this displays the effect of specialists on the city screen, which IMHO is more fun.

Having them "teleport" stuff to the central treasury/science central is not very thrilling.

Graphically, please note that commerce (input) and science, tax revenue and luxeries (Outputs) now take the appearence of "power-bars"

I think thats more intuitive.

Sorry for not posting a screen shot, but in the end this might be clearer.

This is not meant to critisize any of the Artwork, as I really enjoyed it :-)
but just a humble suggestion. Any comments wellcome, +ve or -ve no problem. :-)

P.S. edited using --------- to help spacing (board software takes out a lot of the times I used spacebar)

Last edited by KoenigMkII on 16-02-2002 at 04:07

	16-02-2002 00:52									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Dang, you know you are boring when you reply to your own message just to raise it out of the depths of Apolyton's bin bag of old posts :-)

Seriously, has anyone else noticed that the city display screen dosn't look quite as clear as it might?

Or am I a sad ASCII artist who needs to get a life?

Vote now on this thread (reasons wellcome)

	16-02-2002 01:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What on earth are you talking about?

	16-02-2002 01:37									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The commerce section of the city display screen (where you move citizens about on the city radius)

Just above the line of unit graphics (units stationed in your city)

It tries to show how your city is performing in terms of corruption, tax revenue, science and luxuries.

What I am trying to show (However crudely) is that portion of the city display screen dosn't look right in terms of clearly representing the data.

Take a close look at one of your own cities, and try to understand at a glance what the screen is telling you about commerce etc. It just dosn't look quite right IMHO.

Its no good trying to speed read the first post. Take it line by line, I know its an effort but I think there is a case to answer/discuss.

[I appologise for the cryptic post, but I think its worth a look, use my keys to read the symbols: i.e. what I am trying to say]

	16-02-2002 02:38									#5
	ok Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

So, basically, you'd like to see the incomes broken down to include the contributions of the Marketplaces, Libraries, tax collectors.... I'd vote for that too (as a "nice-to-have", though it could clutter things up some and if it wasn't done right, confusing).

However, by adding Libraries & such, I think you are increasing your corruption too (by a proportional amount) so I think corruption should be shown in each line too.

	16-02-2002 02:54									#6
	Re: ok Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chiefpaco So, basically, you'd like to see the incomes broken down to include the contributions of the Marketplaces, Libraries, tax collectors.... I'd vote for that too (as a "nice-to-have", though it could clutter things up some and if it wasn't done right, confusing). However, by adding Libraries & such, I think you are increasing your corruption too (by a proportional amount) so I think corruption should be shown in each line too.

Ko's reply:
Para one- I agree there is a risk of clutter, but I think almost all of the stuff I have included in my suggested changes are little graphics controls that allready exist on the screen. I am saying "just move them about and they would look even better :-) "

The Higher resolution of CIV III has helped the icons to look much better, so I think slightly smaller versions could go in the "visual-spreadsheet" I am suggesting.

Para 2:-
No, since corruption is taken away from the theorectical max commerce eacy city generates BEFORE it gets split up (according to what tax/sci/lux rate you are running in your empire)

Only then is the remaining gold multiplyed by libraries and universites to give beakers of science etc. Same for tax revenue and luxeries.

The contribution from any specialists is just added on afterwards - sorry I should have used brackets to make it clearer. :-)

Thanks for the reply, I will edit the first post again :-)

	16-02-2002 03:12									#7
	Re: Re: ok Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Here is a quick sketch of the commerce section of the City display screen (I have no improvements yet):

15 Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

CCCCC------GGGGG-----5T--Tax revenue

--------------GGGGG-----5S--Science

----------------------------0---Luxeries

Key No1: G= gold piece icon
-----------C=corruption (coloured red)
-----------S=Beaker icon
-----------T=Treasury (chest) icon

Notice how many fields have G's in them; but thats the input, the gamer most wants to see the OUTPUT differences as you move people arround, use specialists etc.

I suggest it should be (IMHO)

Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGCCCCC
-------------%Rate-------calculation------output
Tax revenue:--50%-----[5G x M x B] + 0X = GGGGG
Science :-------50% ----[5G x L x U] + 0Z = SSSSS
Luxeries:-------0% ------OG @ # + 0E = 0

Key No2.:
M=marketplace icon(with multiplier in small text underneath) , B=Bank icon
L=library icon (with multiplier underneath), U=University icon
x= multiply sign
X= tax collector icon
Z= scientist icon
E= entertainer icon
@ and # are connected luxeries.

And yes I am aware this displays the effect of specialists on the city screen, which IMHO is more fun.

Having them "teleport" stuff to the central treasury/science central is not very thrilling.

Graphically, please note that commerce (input) and science, tax revenue and luxeries (Outputs) now take the appearence of "power-bars"

I think thats more intuitive.

Sorry for not posting a screen shot, but in the end this might be clearer.

This is not meant to critisize any of the Artwork, as I really enjoyed it :-)
but just a humble suggestion. Any comments wellcome, +ve or -ve no problem. :-)

P.S. edited using --------- to help spacing (board software takes out a lot of the times I used spacebar)

Sorry about this, my re-edits trashed the first post, here is a copy (see all above)

Last edited by MarkG on 16-02-2002 at 03:29

	16-02-2002 03:16									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here is a quick sketch of the commerce section of the City display screen (I have no improvements yet):

15 Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

CCCCC------GGGGG-----5T--Tax revenue

--------------GGGGG-----5S--Science

----------------------------0---Luxeries

Key No1: G= gold piece icon
-----------C=corruption (coloured red)
-----------S=Beaker icon
-----------T=Treasury (chest) icon

Notice how many fields have G's in them; but thats the input, the gamer most wants to see the OUTPUT differences as you move people arround, use specialists etc.

I suggest it should be (IMHO)

Commerce: GGGGGGGGGGCCCCC
-------------%Rate-------calculation------output
Tax revenue:--50%-----[5G x M x B] + 0X = GGGGG
Science :-------50% ----[5G x L x U] + 0Z = SSSSS
Luxeries:-------0% ------OG @ # + 0E = 0

Key No2.:
M=marketplace icon(with multiplier in small text underneath) , B=Bank icon
L=library icon (with multiplier underneath), U=University icon
x= multiply sign
X= tax collector icon
Z= scientist icon
E= entertainer icon
@ and # are connected luxeries.

And yes I am aware this displays the effect of specialists on the city screen, which IMHO is more fun.

Having them "teleport" stuff to the central treasury/science central is not very thrilling.

Graphically, please note that commerce (input) and science, tax revenue and luxeries (Outputs) now take the appearence of "power-bars"

I think thats more intuitive.

Sorry for not posting a screen shot, but in the end this might be clearer.

This is not meant to critisize any of the Artwork, as I really enjoyed it :-)
but just a humble suggestion. Any comments wellcome, +ve or -ve no problem. :-)

P.S. edited using --------- to help spacing (board software takes out a lot of the times I used spacebar)

Last edited by MarkG on 16-02-2002 at 03:31

	16-02-2002 03:32									#9
	my bad Increase the size of your Attachments

Oops. You're right about the libs & corruption - it's a multiplier. I knew that but wasn't thinking. Consider that statement cheerfully withdrawn.

Nice of the 1.17 patch to change the civpedia entry to help understand all this stuff. Even though I had to research how all this multiplier stuff worked, I still get confused (obviously)! And this is really an important aspect of your game (i.e. should I make a bank or a university...)

Maybe a nice graphic in the city screen over your improvement that says how much extra gold or research the improvement brings in could serve as well. Or maybe by the improvement on your city list?