15-02-2002 09:34									#1
	Food for thought: Does this patch highlight the peril faced by the PC game industry? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I do not mean this to be a criticism of Firaxis. I can and will do that later.

Many years ago I was a big fan of board war games. The time and enjoyment shared by my friends and I playing these games was precious and I have many wonderful memories.

Board war gaming is long dead now of course. Some might think that the advent of the PC was the cause, but those who remember the events know that marketing decisions by the companies making and distributing war games was the real culprit.

Today PC games are teetering on the brink of extinction. Console gaming threatens to capture the market. One of the major reasons is that console games are far more polished products, having been designed for one set of hardware. PC game makers on the other hand have seemingly endless hardware configurations to deal with.

It has become standard fare for games to be released and then patched. This cuts the development cycle for the games. Gamers are essentially exploited as beta testers saving developers lots of time and money.

The problem is that the majority of people who buy these games don't patch them out. They buy games in beta form and compare them with console games. Guess which look better? I can see the day coming when PC games will be a memory.

Maybe console games will be okay. Maybe games of depth and subtlety will be available in the post PC era. I have doubts however.

As for the practice of patching post release, it has now crept beyond bug killing to include significant amount of game design. Civ 3 is a clear example. Firaxis admits that they did little testing of the late stages of the game. This last patch consists of game balancing as much or more than bug killing. Does this bother you as much as it does me?

Does it bother you that games today have to go out the door before Christmas irregardless of their condition??

In the short term I am sure Civ3 will make a lot of money. The names Civ and Sid will do that. The public will end up paying for an expansion or Gold MP edition (which will be the result of not just Firaxis work, but much public beta testing as well). In the long run, I wonder how many people who are casual gamers will only remember the game in its off the shelf alpha shape while they walk past the PC game shelves on the way to check out the latest console games.

On the forum today people are falling all over themselves to congratulate Firaxis for producing a patch that contains refinements that should have been in the game long before it hit the streets. I am not amused.

Maybe console games will be okay. Maybe games of depth and subtlety will be available in the post PC era. I have doubts however. Times change and I think we will look back on this and realize it happened right before our eyes.

	15-02-2002 09:39									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, all the "Thank you for fixing your broken game" stuff is amusing. But let's face it: At the bottom of the pyramid are a bunch of rabid, easy to please and even easier to fool consumers who, if they could, would have paid $50 to see the game last June.

There is little to gain, it seems, in the PC game industry by going the extra mile and putting out a stellar product. I'm damn glad when it happens, of course, but not surprised in the least that the PC game industry will continue to make piles of money spewing out piles of crap.

Most people see computer games as throw-away money anyway. I don't share that view, however, as I expect my entertainment to actually entertain me. But I'm odd that way. Actually, that's not entirely true: I do spend a lot of money on *some* games not expecting more that a few hours' distraction. Civ3, sadly, wasn't one I viewed that way.

Bad guess on my part (of course, I returned the game, so no harm no foul, right?).

	15-02-2002 09:48									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yin,

Maybe I failed to make my point. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but sooner or later the fools wake up and take their buying power elsewhere.

I guess I am disheartened because I thought that even though the industry is in decline, we could always count on certain top developers to keep the faith.

Now I have to face the fact that if Sid will go along with this ....well, where was the handwriting first found upon the wall? I think that story is in the Bible, I will have to go look it up.

	15-02-2002 09:52									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For the most part I agree with your assessment, jimmytrick. The computer game industry is shooting itself in the foot by releasing games that are basically still in beta (in some cases alpha) and that have no business being on the shelves. The truly maddening thing is that computer game developers and publishers probably end up losing money by following this path--word of mouth on an incomplete game results in who knows how much in lost sales.

But I don't necessarily think the situation is as grim as you indicate. The one edge that PC's have over consoles is upgradability in hardware and software. May seem insignificant to some, but in truth it's critical. With a few exceptions each new version of DirectX, every new driver, and the latest version of windows squezes more performance out of older PC's. And when that doesn't work the user can simply buy more RAM, a new vid card, or a whole new Mobo. With a console, what you see is what you get--at least until several years pass and it's time to plunk down $300 for a new system and $30-$40 per game title.

The computer game industry may weaken--but it will live on. Hopefully the Civ series will do the same.

	15-02-2002 09:55									#5
	Re: Food for thought: Does this patch highlight the peril faced by the PC game industry? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Board war gaming is long dead now of course. Some might think that the advent of the PC was the cause, but those who remember the events know that marketing decisions by the companies making and distributing war games was the real culprit.

Board wargaming is by no means dead. It isn't as big as it used to be, but it still trundles along quite nicely, thanks.

There are several programs that allow people to play boardgames on their computers and via the net:

[*] CyberBoard http://cyberboard.brainiac.com/
[*] Aide de Camp http://www.hpssims.com/pages/produc.../ADC2-Main.html

And if you are interested in discussing wargames or checking out the status of the industry, try:

[*] Web Grognards http://grognard.com/
[*] ConSimWorld http://www.consimworld.com/

The hobby is alive and well!

	15-02-2002 09:56									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

No, I got your point. And trust me: I kept hoping for the fall of the PC game industry...kind of like the U.S. Auto industry had to wake up and see that people were buying better products from overseas.

Maybe that could happen here, too? The analogy holds, I think: You wouldn't predict the end of the entire auto industry, but you can certainly see the end of certain manufacturers who mortgage their futures with shoddy products and piss-poor care for their buyers.

Sound familiar?

I continue to hope and have seen evidence of specific developers reaping what they sowed. On your other point about consoles, I think we'd all benefit from the tight standardization to a point, but we'd also lose a lot of our power to upgrade components instead of entire systems. That said, however, things like the X-Box with awesome dev kits and the ability to connect to the Net could, if done properly, signal the end of the PC as a gaming platform.

	15-02-2002 10:01									#7
	Support Apolyton

Chris, yes, I use cyberboard and I am aware that some stuff is still kicking but....surely you are not going to take the position that board wargaming is anywhere near the industry it once was?

Come on!

	15-02-2002 10:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Two things need to happen:

Hardware driver standardization. Once upon a time all CDROM drives had their own driver. Now a standard microsoft job can do it. DirectX did much of this, but more needs to be done, especially with video cards. Due to standardization, consoles will always be easy to develop games for, however they are cheap and inferior. The quality is often lacking.

Software companies need to stop selling Alpha and Beta products.

	15-02-2002 10:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yin:
Just thought I'd mention that in the PC game industry with all cost included a lot of games don't break even it's just the big sellers usually good (as in relatively bug free) which make all the money. So no they don't rake in tons of money producing buggy crap.

	15-02-2002 10:35									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmmmm... every next generation console is becoming more and more a full fledged computer. If this trend continues, which most experts agree it will... it won't be the pc that becomes obsolete

	15-02-2002 10:36									#11
	Put an end to popups!

This creates the 'other kind' of problem we see: The Hollywoodization of the PC game industry. Only highly-funded and over-marketed crap makes money. With notable and great exceptions, of course.

	15-02-2002 11:07									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Chris, yes, I use cyberboard and I am aware that some stuff is still kicking but....surely you are not going to take the position that board wargaming is anywhere near the industry it once was?

It's not what it used to be, but it isn't

quote: dead

just yet.

	15-02-2002 11:18									#13
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick: well, where was the handwriting first found upon the wall? I think that story is in the Bible, I will have to go look it up.

See Daniel 5.

	15-02-2002 11:51									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by yin26 ...I kept hoping for the fall of the PC game industry...kind of like the U.S. Auto industry had to wake up and see that people were buying better products from overseas.

Good analogy, the point of which I too want to see fulfilled. The only problem is: I don't like Hondas!

Meaning, I prefer PC gaming. I find even the X-box lacking the versatility and raw firepower of a good PC platform, and have no intentions of buying any console ever again.

And though I do agree that PC gaming is in decline- in its 'dark ages' so to speak- by no means is it dying, or in danger of extinction.

Hell! The Sims has proved that!

	15-02-2002 13:47									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Excellent post.

However, I completely disagree. People have been saying that console gaming will soon eclipse pc gaming for years. Really, ever since 86 when the Nintendo came out. It's never happened and it never will. Have you ever tried to play a first-person shooter on a console system? They, with a few notable exceptions, suck. The difficulty in aiming coupled with a shortage of keys suck most of the fun out of them. And although I got my start playing the Civilization series on the Super Nintendo, I've found that most strategy type games for consoles aren't that great (and there aren't very many of them). There are genres of games that can not, and will never, be able to successfully make the transition from PC to console. There are a lot of great games to be found on console systems, but PC gaming will always retain that edge over console gaming.

But this is a moot point anyway. As long people can play games on there PC, people will make games for the PC. Certain companies will suffer for their past actions, however. How many here bought CTP2? I've heard it's a great game (after it's modded - HEAVILY). But I'll never buy it since Activision screwed its customers so badly with the original. "CTP2 is the game CTP should have been." Yeah, in that Activision should have mailed me a free copy after they cut support on the previously unfinished product.

Same goes for Firaxis (and to a larger extent, Infogrames). Great job on the patch, and CivIII is turning out to be a good game. But I won't be buying the expansions or any sequels until I see a LOT of good reviews and good word of mouth. Even then it's iffy. I don't believe I'm alone here. On the other hand I have no reservations about buying a Maxis product the day of it's release, same goes for Sierra - guess why? Never-ending product support. Especially in the case of Sierra. They are still releasing patches for games that were released two years ago.

The key to long-term success in this industry is customer support that goes above and beyond what anyone would expect. Firaxis and Infogrammes seem to be doing just enough to keep everyone fairly content, but they're certainly not building up a surplus of good-will by any stretch of the imagination.