16-02-2002 05:24									#1
	This is probably a bug, but I'm not complaining. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Standard Map playing as the Romans.

First two goody huts give me ARMIES. This never happened to me pre 1.17.

Anybody else getting this? If not I'm going to OWN the tourneys

	16-02-2002 05:33									#2
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Armies??!!??

Scary....

No, never happened to me.... I've gotten settlers, warriors... but never armies....

Steele

PS:Were there units in the armies?

	16-02-2002 07:01									#3
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Even if you don't want the armies, that's 100 shields right there This bug must be fixed!

	16-02-2002 08:04									#4
	Yep, armies Enter the AD-FREE zone

I got an army from a hut, too (funny, when you right click it you see that it's a "conscript" army. Doesn't change anything about it, you still get 3 slots). I also got two settlers from huts on that same game, one on the first turn (and typically two more settlers than I usually get from huts over the entire course of the game). That army let me conquer those stinking Germans in the ancient era and fighting some barbarians with the army got me the Heroic Epic about fifteen hundred years earlier than I've ever had it before (built in 350 BC). In short, I effectively won that game in the Ancient era (the world just doesn't know about it, yet) on the merit of THREE GOODIE HUTS. Is it a nice new bonus? Very. Is it unbalancing? Probably. Especially if the AI gets ahold of goodie hut armies (Can you imagine the Aztecs or the Zulus with a free army in the Ancient era on Emperor or Deity...or even Monarch? yikes!).

I won't complain about the results I got, but it seems to be WAY too much of a benefit to place on such a purely random encounter as opening a hut. OTOH, if Expansionist civs get more armies from huts than other civs, it might actually make sense to play as expansionist civs for the expansionist trait.

	16-02-2002 08:09									#5
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Amazing that I got two in a row

I like that they're trying to make armies more accessible in the ancient era, but this isn't the way to go about it IMO.

	16-02-2002 08:23									#6
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Did these free armies happen upon you after the patch (1.17)?
That might explain why I have never seen anything like that...

Steele

	16-02-2002 08:27									#7
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The first guy said that had never happened to him pre patch... so I'm guessing that's the problem, I've never seen it happen either, although I've not tried out the latest patch extensively. What exactly does it say when you get the army? 'The Zhou tribe has given us a skilled army'?

	16-02-2002 08:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DrFell The first guy said that had never happened to him pre patch... so I'm guessing that's the problem, I've never seen it happen either, although I've not tried out the latest patch extensively. What exactly does it say when you get the army? 'The Zhou tribe has given us a skilled army'?

No, it's more like 'The Zhou tribe has given us the first born male child of every hut to join own new skilled army'

	16-02-2002 08:49									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

How about: "The Zhou tribe has given us a Great Leader, and I went ahead and took the initiave of turning him into an army, just in case that's what you wanted to do, sir."

Steele

	16-02-2002 08:52									#10
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I'm really starting to like these Zhou guys.

	16-02-2002 08:55									#11
	Yep, "skilled army" Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yep, "The Zhou Tribe gave us a skilled army."

And yes, this definitely seems to be a 1.17f-specific effect, and I've heard that people who open huts that were left alone until modern times got tanks and such from them (how useful is a conscript tank?).

I think that's part (or possibly the whole effect) of the "Barbarians can now build any unit" undocumented 1.17f change. The best way to try to see one for yourself would be to start a huge pangea map with sedentary barbs and a really small number of civs (3 or 4, or heck, just 1 if you don't want to actually play it for anything besides watching armies coming out from huts), play as the Americans or the Zulu or some other expansionist civ and use those 2 movement units to pop all the huts, an army has to come out of one of them sooner or later. Or if you want to do work, fire up the editor and place yourself on an island full of goodie huts.

	16-02-2002 09:20									#12
	Re: Yep, "skilled army" Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Carbon Copy I think that's part (or possibly the whole effect) of the "Barbarians can now build any unit" undocumented 1.17f change.

That's some great insight. I'm off to the editor now, to enable the barbarians to produce only warriors and leaders. Jyanei.

	16-02-2002 09:26									#13
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Can the Barbarians build armies? That could be a setback. Imagine sending a couple horsemen off to eliminate the Barbarians in your region, and coming across a fully-loaded army... Ouch.

Steele

	16-02-2002 09:28									#14
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I agree, it IS a great insight, but I cannot claim that which is not mine.

However, I forgot who DID make that observation first, or even if I saw it at CivFanatics or at Apolyton. With what I and other people have been observing, it does seem to make a bit of sense. Be sure to let us all know how it goes.

	16-02-2002 09:30									#15
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all i can say is...

until, of course, the barbarians get one...

does the ai know how to use armies?

	16-02-2002 09:35									#16
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Yeah they do, but they can create some weird mixes, like a swordsman/musketeer/cavalry army.

	16-02-2002 09:37									#17
	Re: Yep, "skilled army" Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Carbon Copy I think that's part (or possibly the whole effect) of the "Barbarians can now build any unit" undocumented 1.17f change. The best way to try to see one for yourself would be to start a huge pangea map with sedentary barbs and a really small number of civs (3 or 4, or heck, just 1 if you don't want to actually play it for anything besides watching armies coming out from huts), play as the Americans or the Zulu or some other expansionist civ and use those 2 movement units to pop all the huts, an army has to come out of one of them sooner or later. Or if you want to do work, fire up the editor and place yourself on an island full of goodie huts.

Yes, I think that would explain it. I had a look in the editor but the Barbarian units seem pretty much fixed, so I couldn't figure out what they meant by that. Interesting. I'm glad that I play American.

	16-02-2002 09:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by pauli does the ai know how to use armies?

It certainly does. Though not as well as the human player I suspect.

	16-02-2002 09:43									#19
	Re: Re: Yep, "skilled army" Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha That's some great insight. I'm off to the editor now, to enable the barbarians to produce only warriors and leaders. Jyanei.

No, no I think you misunderstand. It's not the Barbarians that attack you which are producing Armies, it's the goody huts. Those are also considered Barbarian tribes. The attacking Barbarians are the same as they were, just the goody hut Barbarians are changed.

	16-02-2002 09:46									#20
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That was the guy who got the two armies out of huts you know

	16-02-2002 09:55									#21
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Yeah well, he'll soon find that he can't change the way the goody huts give out stuff. I was just trying to save himself the hassle. Too late I guess.

	16-02-2002 11:00									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Willem Yeah well, he'll soon find that he can't change the way the goody huts give out stuff. I was just trying to save himself the hassle. Too late I guess.

HA HA HA THE JOKES ON YOU FUNNYMAN. What I meant was to only only allow the sedentary barbs to "produce" armies in the units screen. So any time you get a unit from a goody hut, it HAS to be an army. And it worked, so HA.





Anyway in the mod I'm using I have a small wonder, "Command Center," available after you build 4 barracks that allows you to build armies anyway.

	16-02-2002 11:17									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha Anyway in the mod I'm using I have a small wonder, "Command Center," available after you build 4 barracks that allows you to build armies anyway.

Why not just convert your Palace to a Small Wonder that can build Armies?

	16-02-2002 11:23									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Why not just convert your Palace to a Small Wonder that can build Armies?

Crashes the game. I don't think you're supposed to be able to select effects from more than one of the categories.

Anyway, even if I could, I wouldn't, since I like this better.

	16-02-2002 11:38									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha Crashes the game. I don't think you're supposed to be able to select effects from more than one of the categories. Anyway, even if I could, I wouldn't, since I like this better.

The problem is the splash screen graphic. I've done it with mine and it works just fine. You just have to number it as 0 in the pediaicons.txt list.

	16-02-2002 12:13									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The AI does use armies. In my current game (in which I am the first-place Greeks), the second-place French have forged alliances with twelve out of sixteen nations against the the third-place Babbylonians, who are allied with middling Romans and dead-last Aztecs. I am playing Switzerland to this mess. I have several resource-gathering cities smack-dab in the middle of the battlefield and as far from my home continent as is possible. Their territories have become the highway of nations and I'm not going to do a damn thing about it. It has given me a ring-side seat to the hostilities, however. I've seen at least 200 'Gand Alliance' units haed south into Babylon, and two Babyonian armies head north. It seems that they and I are the only ones with armies. One army was lost in my view, but I'm not sure if it was attacking or defending. That army appaered to be commposed of an elite knight, a spearman, and some unit I don't remember.

	16-02-2002 12:37									#27
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edit - nevermind

Last edited by Kilroy_Alpha on 17-02-2002 at 02:26

	16-02-2002 17:09									#28
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Maybe they have made the goody huts better to make the expansionist civs more attractive

	17-02-2002 02:28									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Hagbart Maybe they have made the goody huts better to make the expansionist civs more attractive

Then they went overboad, IMO.

	17-02-2002 08:49									#30
	Re: Yep, "skilled army" Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Carbon Copy And yes, this definitely seems to be a 1.17f-specific effect, and I've heard that people who open huts that were left alone until modern times got tanks and such from them (how useful is a conscript tank?).

I got Fission from a hut before. Those are pretty smart axe wielding barbarians!