13-12-2000 09:53									#1
	Surprise and Ambush Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The title speaks for itself. How it would work is that different units would be more or less susceptable to surprise/ambush. You can set any unit (or specific units/types of units are prohibited from ambushing) up in an ambush. If the enemy sees the ambushing unit then the ambush is not successful. But if it is, then the unaware unit is surprised. To surprise a unit, then the unit must not be able to see your unit attack.

Conditions to determine the chances that the surprised unit is surprised are the terrain (forest type terrains conceal better than flat terrains. 'Mountainus' regions also add to the concealment factor), the unit (different units are more or less 'stealthy' than others, ex. a guerilla unit on a flat land terrain could surprise an armor unit in the forest). And whether or not you are at war (if you are not at war, then they would not be expecting the attack and thus would be surprised, even if they saw the unit coming. The attack would be an act of war, and the 'peace time' benefit would be used up).

If you surprise the unit then you get 1-2 free hits in on the defending unit, depending on the conditions between the two squares and units (a guerilla unit in the forest would always get 2 hits in on an armor on flat lands before the armor can react).

	13-12-2000 14:55									#2
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Personally I think this is an interesting idea, all though history sneak attscks have always aided the attacker, E.G. Pearl Harbour, if America exspected it, it could have gone the other way. So I like the idea of sneak attacks.

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

	13-12-2000 15:23									#3
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While I heartily agree with changing effectiveness of certain types of unit based on terrain in tactical combat games, I don't think the scale of Civ allows such niceties. In a one year turn they might well ambush and destroy the lead column of an armoured division which then deploys more carefully and sweeps them from out of its path. Defenders ambushing and using all the tricks of the terrain is factored into the defensive bonus. We all know how hard it can be to dislodge a veteran unit fortified in mountains. A chance of reducing the defenders fortification bonuses if launching a sudden attack in peacetime would be interesting, though.

	13-12-2000 18:01									#4
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I think it would add too much tactical level micromanagement to the game. I agree that the game is somehow lacking this and we would all love to ambush, sneak, use flanks, encircle the enemy, cut off its suplies etc. But I'm afraid the AI won't be able to deal with a human player if such elements are added.

	14-12-2000 10:58									#5
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An added idea: have ambushing units only able to attack as many units as it has remaining movement points. That way it can only ambush a certain number of times. It makes sence because if each attack takes up a movement point, so also would an ambush take one movement point.

In actuality, one 'movement' point is the number of things that unit can do in one turn, not just the number of spaces it can move. Thus it should be renamed 'speed points.'
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited December 13, 2000).]

	14-12-2000 00:32									#6
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We have talked alot about this kind of idea in the pass, I think it is a great idea. But I also agree that it would add to much micromanagement to the game. How ever, if actual 'battle screens', with real battles are implemented in civ3, then there would be no problem in adding flanks, surprise attacks, etc.

p.s. Death, the USA did know the Japanese were coming long before Pearl Harbor was attacked.