17-02-2002 17:56									#1
	thie HAS to be a bug Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Rome declares war on me in about 400AD, 600AD they still dont talk to me i get the zulus in on my side.
800 AD romans still wont talk to me, they SIGN A PEACE TREATY WITH ZULUS AND THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE 1 BATTLE!!!!(well maybe 1).

1200AD, romans still wont speak to me, despite being in awe of my culture etc etc me being number 1 etc etc. is this a 'dont speak to nice egyptian republic bug?(had to revolt due to war weariness - picking a religeous civ seems to be the only thing to do......)


No one EVER seems to want to accept a trade deal either

and another rant before i go, why is it that the roman warriors consitently whip my arse even though i have fields of swordsman and horsemen (some elite)?


i am using kestrels unit mania and the latest patch if that helps.

	17-02-2002 20:57									#2
	Support Apolyton

Because my freind, God is on the side of he with Mighty Legions (or something like that)

Be Rome Not Egypt!

	17-02-2002 21:07									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Try maneuvering Rome into a situation where Caesar will parlay. Amass a force, then threaten/conquer one of his cities. Or...be patient.

	17-02-2002 22:20									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

well, they took 2 of my cities, and i have taken like 4 of theirs and raised them. i mean, why wont they atleast talk to me and just tell me to **** off when i offer them peace, thats better then them not even seeing my envoy.

	17-02-2002 22:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

YEah, the best way to get the AI to talk ususally is to take some of thier cities.

Of course, Rome Shall Prevail

	17-02-2002 22:29									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Razing his citys probably did it. He's mad as hell and decided to ignore you for an age


ROMA VICTOR!

	17-02-2002 22:36									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

so, to get a peace, i have to take his crap worthless cities in ther middle of a jangle, they serve no purpose but to annoy me, i have to KEEP these.


oh why cant you have a 3rd party to call for peace like in SMAC

	17-02-2002 22:41									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, the other civs don't take kindly to the human player razing cities. You've no doubt become his mortal enemy, and there's the possibilty that the only way out of the situation is to destroy him completely. Sometimes they just won't make peace no matter what you do, that's just part of the game. It would be nice if you could get another civ to negotiate on your behalf, but I'm afraid that diplomacy option isn't available at this time. So you're just going to have to accept it.

	17-02-2002 22:45									#9
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man so, to get a peace, i have to take his crap worthless cities in ther middle of a jangle, they serve no purpose but to annoy me, i have to KEEP these. oh why cant you have a 3rd party to call for peace like in SMAC

Well in SMAC, razing a city was considered an Atrocity, resulting in a civ gang up, so what's the difference? If anything Civ III has made it easier to do. At least the Zulus are still on your side. If this were SMAC you'd be at war with everyone right now. But I agree with, I'd like to see some third party diplomacy options in the game.

	17-02-2002 22:46									#10
	Got spare money?

thing is, the romans have a massive empire and i dont wanna waste all of the game picking them off and stuck in a monarchy when i just wanna be a republic that minds its own buisness

isnt there a...dare i say it..... cheat?

	17-02-2002 23:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man thing is, the romans have a massive empire and i dont wanna waste all of the game picking them off and stuck in a monarchy when i just wanna be a republic that minds its own buisness isnt there a...dare i say it..... cheat?

No sorry, you'll just have to deal with it. I had the same thing one time with the Indians, and the only way to end the war was to destroy them. I've heard that even starving a captured city to non-existance will get the other civ upset. They remember what cities where theirs, and they get upset if you harm their former citizens. It's part of the culture thing, they have memories. And sometimes they just don't want anything to do with you, they'd rather go down fighting.

	18-02-2002 00:04									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If you completely whip someone's ass, they may believe that the war is a fight to the death. If they think they will never become a power to be reckoned with by signing a peace treaty... you can't blaim them for refusing. It's happened to me a few times, the civ has three cities on a distant island and I don't really care enough to grab them, but they refuse to see me and sign a peace treaty (probably because the AI realize it's only a matter of time for them anyways).

Btw, I think there was supposed to be a Wonder in the game that forced enemies to sign peace treaties, as there was in CivII. In that game, enemies could prolong the war by refusing to talk to you. That must be the reason why other leaders refuse to talk to the player... but hey, I dunno really.

	18-02-2002 00:22									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just keep on fighting, they'll give up eventually. Then you get to demand ridiculously harsh peace terms.

	18-02-2002 03:12									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i tried, i really tried. but i just can stand the ****ing game anymore.

i eventually got the peace, and the a few turns later i ask them to leave my territory - you guessed it WAR.

they wont talk to me, even though cities have bin lost, (for both of us) and it is now just stupid. i didnt even get to the industrial age

	18-02-2002 03:31									#15
	Re: thie HAS to be a bug Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man Rome declares war on me in about 400AD, 600AD they still dont talk to me i get the zulus in on my side. 800 AD romans still wont talk to me, they SIGN A PEACE TREATY WITH ZULUS AND THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE 1 BATTLE!!!!(well maybe 1). 1200AD, romans still wont speak to me, despite being in awe of my culture etc etc me being number 1 etc etc. is this a 'dont speak to nice egyptian republic bug?(had to revolt due to war weariness - picking a religeous civ seems to be the only thing to do......) No one EVER seems to want to accept a trade deal either and another rant before i go, why is it that the roman warriors consitently whip my arse even though i have fields of swordsman and horsemen (some elite)? i am using kestrels unit mania and the latest patch if that helps.

so you say that the AI wouldn't talk to you from 400-1200 AD? That is the equivalent of 80 turns, and usually the AI will at most not talk to you for 10 turns. Unless you have fought 7 or 8 wars already with Rome, this sounds like a bug. I would be highly interested in seeing a saved game from shortly after the war began and from 1200 with the AI unwilling to talk.

	18-02-2002 22:15									#16
	Put an end to popups!

man if i had seen that post before i deleted it out of frustration.

it was, my 1st war with the romans.

perhaps i will start again and see if it happens, or i am just some super unlucky ****wit

the 2nd war, which started in around 1300, went on until like 1455-1500. and they never spoke to me once, and as i said, they tok a city i took a city or 2, they just didnt wanna talk, and cos i am so lame at the military (i cant cope with 80legons and i only have 20knights) this is were i just deleted it all.

	18-02-2002 22:39									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder

	18-02-2002 23:12									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Because my freind, God is on the side of he with Mighty Legions (or something like that) Be Rome Not Egypt!

ROMA VICTOR!

Iuppiter deus est.
Deus in Româ habitat!

	18-02-2002 23:18									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

'maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder'


sorry, when i said deleted, i ment the whole civ game. was so pissed off, and i had to vent it some how, and i dint wanna punch the table again cos my hand has a bruise from last time a gave civ3 a go.....

	18-02-2002 23:54									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Have you considered an anger management class of some sort? The thing we need is you injuring yourself or others the next time you disagree with the Romans.

	19-02-2002 01:05									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man 'maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder' sorry, when i said deleted, i ment the whole civ game. was so pissed off, and i had to vent it some how, and i dint wanna punch the table again cos my hand has a bruise from last time a gave civ3 a go.....

that's too bad. I would like to get to the bottom of this because in 1.17, if you are fighting your first war against a civ, they should be willing to talk to you after AT MOST ten turns. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem? I would love to see some saved games.

	19-02-2002 01:38									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hmm.. I was once at war with the Americans for a loong time before they'd talk... but that was pre 1.17f anyway..

	19-02-2002 05:05									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis that's too bad. I would like to get to the bottom of this because in 1.17, if you are fighting your first war against a civ, they should be willing to talk to you after AT MOST ten turns. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem? I would love to see some saved games.

I came across another bug you might want to look at. A short while ago, I noticed that the game was resetting my Science rate every turn. I would set it to 10%, and the next turn it jump to 40%. This happened consistently every turn. After trying to figure out what was causing it, I discovered that it happened when I adjusted the rate cap in the Governments area of the editor. I was trying to lower the amount a Despot government could spend on research to 60%, and when I did, I was no longer able to control my sliders. As soon as I put it back to 100%, the problem went away.

BTW, this was happening pre-patch as well.

	19-02-2002 05:14									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Willem I came across another bug you might want to look at. A short while ago, I noticed that the game was resetting my Science rate every turn. I would set it to 10%, and the next turn it jump to 40%. This happened consistently every turn. After trying to figure out what was causing it, I discovered that it happened when I adjusted the rate cap in the Governments area of the editor. I was trying to lower the amount a Despot government could spend on research to 60%, and when I did, I was no longer able to control my sliders. As soon as I put it back to 100%, the problem went away. BTW, this was happening pre-patch as well.

if your science rate was 10%, then your "tax rate" was 90%. Thus, the tax rate was automatically adjusted back to 60% and your science up to 40%.

	19-02-2002 05:28									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis if your science rate was 10%, then your "tax rate" was 90%. Thus, the tax rate was automatically adjusted back to 60% and your science up to 40%.

Ah yes, I see. I didn't realize that affected everything, I figured it was only the Science. Any chance you could seperate those sometime down the road? I'd like to be able to put some research limitations on early govs. It would be much appreciated.

	20-02-2002 01:16									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i started a new game with the patch, but without kestrels mod pack, this time they seeem to talk, even the french, they were oevr seas and i we never battled it out anywhere, and after bout 10-15 turns (cant remember) they talked.

maybe it was using a mod pack from v1.16 on v1.17???

	20-02-2002 01:46									#27
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man i started a new game with the patch, but without kestrels mod pack, this time they seeem to talk, even the french, they were oevr seas and i we never battled it out anywhere, and after bout 10-15 turns (cant remember) they talked. maybe it was using a mod pack from v1.16 on v1.17???

hmm... that is possible. The basic algorithm is that it takes about 5-10 turns for them to be willing to talk, and it is multiplied by the number of times you have been at war previously (to counter war-jacking...) So, if you ever experience something different from this, it would be a bug, and I would love to take a look at it.

btw, we are considering lowering these values in the future.

	20-02-2002 01:55									#28
	Suffering from ads?

is succcess in the feild taken into acount, ie, if no cities them selves are attcked, but alot of units are lost in the open and the AI is taking imense loses very quickly, does it view this similar to i it was loosing cities like crazy, and also if it is winning feild battles does it demand more from a treaty?

	20-02-2002 02:10									#29
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man is succcess in the feild taken into acount, ie, if no cities them selves are attcked, but alot of units are lost in the open and the AI is taking imense loses very quickly, does it view this similar to i it was loosing cities like crazy, and also if it is winning feild battles does it demand more from a treaty?

everything is taken into account... including pillaging, for example. but weighed according to effect. Obviously, capturing a city is better than pillaging 10 tiles.

	20-02-2002 03:29									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think you ought to tell first if you are using a mod or a whatever file that is not from the game, first.

I made a scenario, and if the Romans are next to me, they will hardly ever fight, except they are starting new cities.

Rome is Rome, just like Persians are Persians, they expand like the Americans, and if usually one leaves them alone, they end up fighting each other for more territory.

Also, one can turn off some of the 'win' conditions.

Different Civ's for different folks!

Otherwise, Rome's army will be better than some other Civ's army.
Also keep in mind that leaders will start wars to create a leader to rush a wonder, if their civ is impressed with your culture.

Play the game!