19-02-2002 00:03									#1
	Some suggestions for Loctus-Alexander bug (for expert SILCers only) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What is so called Loctus-Alexander bug?
It's bug in CTP2 in wich one stack tries to go throught second stack, but since it can't (both stacks have lot of units), stack just stay stucked in fort of other group of units.
This behavior was very irritating in Alexader scenario and in basic game. It also degrades AI.


So I have several solutions.

First, if there are two FORTIFIED stacks on open, both not adjanced to ciites, and with sum of 12+ units (toghter). This happens when one tries to go through other one, since it is only way, or if both are on road.

Solution: just swap these two stacks (teleport). Although they'll lose thier orders, AI will give them a new one next turn, and porbably they won't divert too much form original orders (Medmod clears orders every 3 turns, and is doesn't hamper AI).

Second, if one stack is in city, and another one adjanced to city. In this case best solution is to move outse unit on one of surrounding tiles:

0000
0C00
00U0

in this case unit (stack) should be moved in one of following positions (A or B)

0000
0CB0
0AU0

This should solved the problem in most cases. If thes position don't exsist (ocen tile, or already occupied), then move unit on one of the opposide direction positions:

XX00
XC00
00U0

If none of these are possibile then move unit in oposite direction but one tile away from city.



Suggestion: First should be proccesed stacks adjanced to cities, and later stacks which are completly on open.




P.S.
A little off topic.
I have noticed that somtimes there are defensive stacks in cities. These stack AI doesn't try to uprage.
If detected, this stacks should be unstacked so AI could be allowed to upgrade those units.


P.P.S.
I hope there is someone who could code this.


P.P.P.S
I hope I haven missed something.

P.P.P.P.S.
No I haven't come back to CTP2. In fact I don't have this game on hard anymore. Still I feal obligated to share some good ideas here.

	23-02-2002 03:56									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sorry for my late reaction, I've been very busy lately, which makes me tired and unable to think clearly about complex problems such as this one...

My solution to the Alexander scenario was to simply make all roads 2 tiles wide, this works as well. In the regular game this doesn't help much of course and you're solutions could well fill this gap. However, the problem is: how do you know the armies actually mean to move in the direction you think they're moving? They might just be passing by and be going in a completely different direction. You could reduce this problem by only teleporting armies that are fortifying. This still creates a problem though: if armies intend to fortify at the position at which they are, they will constantly try to fortify and be teleported, resulting in an infinite loop (at least until they are needed elsewhere or desstroyed).

Although your solutions could help a lot, they don't solve the problem entirely. Therefore, and because there are far easier ways of improving the AI, I've put a general solution to this problem pretty low on my priority list. If noone else does, I'll probably have a look at it sometime, but that could be a long time from now.

quote: If detected, this stacks should be unstacked so AI could be allowed to upgrade those units.

I think we (read: Peter) came up with proper auto upgrade code quite a while ago. I think this upgrades all AI units, including city defenders.

quote: I hope I haven missed something.

You've missed more than you can even begin to imagine...

quote: Still I feal obligated to share some good ideas here.

Those are always welcome and very much appreciated

	23-02-2002 05:21									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This should apply only to fortified stacks outside cities which together with adjanced stacks have sum of 12+, and no stack should be moved more then once in turn.


About upgrading:
when I used my own MOD (no upgrade slic) I noticed that only cities with had FORTIFIED STACKS didn't upgrade them.
All other unis where up to date.

So some sort of city-automatic-unstacker could easily solve upgrade problems without need of some specific code.





P.S.
My expirience tells me that one of MAJOR problems with AI is "STUCKing of STACKS"
That's a REAL reason of POOR AI in modern times.
To many roads & railroads.
BUGGY pathfining. (hard-coded bug)


P.P.S.
Adding auto roads & railroads around AI citeis could reduce (but not completly solve) this problem.
Somthing like that should have a high prority in SLICing community.

	24-02-2002 04:00									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: About upgrading: when I used my own MOD (no upgrade slic) I noticed that only cities with had FORTIFIED STACKS didn't upgrade them. All other unis where up to date.

I don't know how long ago exactly you created your mod, was that before or after Peter (Triggs) released his unit-upgrade code for Cradle. If it was after, it's a moot point since that code, although I think it is (or at least was) slightly buggy, upgrades *all* units AFAIK, stacked or unstacked, fortified or unfortified.

quote: My expirience tells me that one of MAJOR problems with AI is "STUCKing of STACKS" That's a REAL reason of POOR AI in modern times. To many roads & railroads.

I haven't noticed this myself yet but I'll test for it.