21-02-2002 21:52									#1
	Mystery Advances Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I know that this sounds strange, but one of the things I like least about Civ is the predictability.

You always know what you are researching and why. I would like to see some optional variable advances for each age.
Something like the R&D of Axis and Allies, maybe you end up with better planes or maybe you end up with something else.
Maybe they have different attributes for each civ or game.

Such as: Researching Guilds provides extra coins per marketplace or makes an extra citizen happy or reduces the waste in a city.

or research some advance Stone Age Future Tech and you end up with River Barging (extra coins from squares next to river tiles) or Coastal Trading ( new unit ) or some government type.
Maybe you could research it multiple times to get the one you want...

	22-02-2002 02:03									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

i liked the option in SMAC, where you said what direction u wanted to go in (expand, explore etc).

and you got one later on, but never new what u was actually reasearching. o mean, do they deliberatly set out to discover sumthing they dont know about?

	22-02-2002 05:17									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man i liked the option in SMAC, where you said what direction u wanted to go in (expand, explore etc). and you got one later on, but never new what u was actually reasearching. o mean, do they deliberatly set out to discover sumthing they dont know about?

I liked having that option too. It was called Blind Research I think.

In response to your second question, yes and no.

Some governments (usually military wing) and/or wealthy patrons would fund a project with some specific aim (research in artillery for example) but many developments happen spontaneously. Though not randomly - there were reasons, usually conditions were ripe. For example, certain social/political movements weren't invented or designed, they just happened. Of course, the ideology was developed but rarely by the ruling authority. They were interested in the status quo. In the technological realm, historically things were usually developed first and then marketed rather than the other way around.

And sometimes, directed research would fail. For example, many kings spent a fortune funding alchemists who promised to turn lead into gold. Didn't happen. And many also spent a fortune to create the elixir of eternal youth (the elixirs usually ended up being a poison of some sort...)

MOO had a really good system for it. IIRC, first there is a period of blindness and then something pops up saying the following technology has been found to have potential. You would then fund researching that specific tech until a breakthrough occurred. It wasn't a fixed amount you needed to spend. Increased funding only increased the chance of earlier discovery.
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I think you also got to research multiple techs at once and you just prioritized funding for the fields you were most interested in (spaceship tech, planetary tech, etc...)
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The trouble with the non-blind research is that you often decide to fight wars based on when you achieve a certain tech. "I need to capture hostile enemy city soon because it is raiding my borders. But no, knights aren't powerful enough offensively now, I'll wait the twenty two turns until I get cavalry. " The problem is that you should have no way of knowing that there will be a tech breakthrough in exactly twenty two turns or what that breakthrough will be at all! If you're within ten turns of a discovery, you'll have a good idea of what's being developed but since some uncertainty as to when you can apply it.

Or players decide to start building something they haven't even discovered yet! (by stockpiling shields since there's no switching penalty). Woop!

Some players avoid ancient era conquest knowing that having that tech gap in the future makes war easier. When the rulers of countries decided on peace or war, it wasn't in knowing their descendents would have tanks to use in future revenge. It was based on what they had then or in the near future. Sure there would be tech developments, but you couldn't count on anything specific to save your hide in ten turns. Instead of aiming your tech at what you want to do later, you have to adapt and modify your ambitions based on current & near future conditions.

It has its advantages (it's easier, and some people find it more fun to race up a tech tree) but blind research shouldn't be discounted. It's great! (With that, it might even mean the AI doesn't have to cheat as much to keep pace with a human player since humans can exploit the idea of planning for the future better).

but that's just my 2 cents.

	22-02-2002 05:22									#4
	Re: Mystery Advances Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Shadow_Cougar I know that this sounds strange, but one of the things I like least about Civ is the predictability. You always know what you are researching and why. I would like to see some optional variable advances for each age. Something like the R&D of Axis and Allies, maybe you end up with better planes or maybe you end up with something else. Maybe they have different attributes for each civ or game.

Great idea man! That would add so much replay value!

	22-02-2002 08:58									#5
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Except that most of us indulge very much in buying our technologies...

	22-02-2002 21:24									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sounds good to me. Would be a great mod! The programming is obviously there, since the advances based on the Theory of Evolution are already random.

	22-02-2002 21:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here's what I think.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=42992

Spec.

	22-02-2002 23:56									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I much prefer being able to pick my tech, otherwise it's just another strategy element taken out of the game, or weakened.