21-02-2002 23:18									#1
	Analyzing in-game diplomacy - very confusing Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have been playing a rather enticing game as the Americans. I decided in this game I was not going to war at random like I so often do when I play as the Romans, etc. In this game I wanted to build a really good relationship with all of the other civilizations.

The game is on the largest random map size with 7 civilizations, at Regeant level. The year is now 1844AD. The other civs are Egypt, Greece, Russia, Japan, India, Germany, and the Romans (destroyed by the Russians).

I control a single large continent. There are 2 other continents, where 3 civilizations on each one reside. Most civilizations are around the same size, although I have been the high score leader throughout the game for awhile.

I am trying to analyze whether my actions have some how influenced the game mechanics / diplomacy:

(1) For example, during most of the game I did not know any other civilizations. I came in contact with the rest of the world at around 1100 AD. I thought this would have a negative impact on my relations but I was at good standing with other civilizations for awhile.

(2) When I first came in contact with all other civilizations, the Romans had just been totally defeated. Before this, the Russians and Egyptians were warring against the Romans. The histograph shows that the Romans were once more powerful civ in the game for a long time. I have taken their place.

(3) I buy most of my luxuries and some resources from overseas, mostly from Japan. I was in good standing with Japan for a long time. After the Russians finished off the Romans, for whatever reason, the Russians decided to declare war on me. I was in good standing with the Russians when they did this (Polite), and we had a mutual protection pact! What gives?

(4) I signed military alliances against the Russians with all other nations. The entire world began to fight the Russians. I took 4 of Russia's cities (not many), and ended the war after several hundred years of this. Now all nations are annoyed by me, no matter what I do. There are other wars ongoing in the world, but not severely.

(5) After this I became paranoid that my civ was too weak. When I hadn't known anyone for thousands of years I had almost no military and focused only on culture and science. I decided to change this and built up a huge military to rival the others.

(6) After being a democracy for along time, it seemed everyone else was aswell. Now here is something strange that happened. I checked the military advisor and all other nations have become Communist. I have thought that maybe this is why they dislike me. Why would someone switch to communism... to build up there military! I have thought maybe the fact that I built up my military may have actually changed everyones form of government... I can't be sure though.

So why is the rest of the world mad at me. I also have a trade embargo with all other civs against the Russians. It has been a long time since I signed these embargos and noone has wanted to cancel them so I assume that is a good thing... But for whatever reason, all other civs are mad at me. I am spending around 200 gold per turn buying stuff from Japan and they are still Annoyed with me. As a matter off act, every single country in the game is annoyed with me.. and I didn't do anything to them!

I am trying to win the game diplomatically, or atleast be in good standing with a few civs. Does anyone have any recommendations or explanations as to why this would be? This always seems to happen in most of my games

--Mike

	21-02-2002 23:31									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Mike,

I can think of two possibilities:

1) Did you end the war with the Russians prior to canceling your alliances with the other civs? If so, you broke your alliances, which screwed up your diplomatic standing and pissed them off.

2) You're winning, and it's lonely at the top. I don't think it's this alone, but coupled with other factors, this might be making it worse.

-Arrian

	21-02-2002 23:37									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Arrian,

Good point. I did not end the alliances in the diplomacy window when I ended the war with Russia. I should have done this... I think this might be the smoking gun in my case. There should be a warning or atleast a message after you violate a treaty like that. A popup window maybe that states "You have violated your military alliances against Russia with [civ names]. They are condemning your actions" or something like that.

I also think that it might be due to the fact that I built up my military in combination with this. I outnumber a few countries militarilly and it seems relations have broken down to apoint that they can never be repaired. I know for a fact that in Civ2, certain leaders/civs disliked certain government types based on their personalities. I am wondering if this is true in Civ3. I am wondering if you are communist, do you have a natural tendency to dislike democracies, and vice versa...

Thanks for your input

	21-02-2002 23:51									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As to why the Russians attacked you even though their status was polite, had you recently signed some deals with them (like selling them tech) for large amounts of money per turn? If a Civ cannot pay its debts, it declares war. So, beware of great looking deals, the Civ might only be able to pay that rate for a turn or two, then you're in a war. ( I cannot take credit for figuring this out, I've seen it elsewhere in the forum, but I cannot remember who to give the credit to).

	22-02-2002 05:23									#5
	Re: Analyzing in-game diplomacy - very confusing Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Mike4879 (4) I signed military alliances against the Russians with all other nations. The entire world began to fight the Russians. I took 4 of Russia's cities (not many), and ended the war after several hundred years of this. Now all nations are annoyed by me, no matter what I do. There are other wars ongoing in the world, but not severely.

Every agreement you make with another civ lasts for 20 turns. So if you sign a peace treaty while your military alliance is still active, then you have violated your original agreement. That's why they're annoyed with you.

quote: (6) After being a democracy for along time, it seemed everyone else was aswell. Now here is something strange that happened. I checked the military advisor and all other nations have become Communist. I have thought that maybe this is why they dislike me. Why would someone switch to communism... to build up there military! I have thought maybe the fact that I built up my military may have actually changed everyones form of government... I can't be sure though.

Chances are they were forced to because of their war weariness. If they continue a war in Democracy for to long, their people will start to revolt. So they probably switched to Communism in order to avoid this.