22-02-2002 05:11									#1
	Cheating....how does one compete against or even hang with Cheaters? Inflate your Upload Space

I have been playing this game about as long as anyone..and have been beaten down..won a few..lost a lot more..but my question is how does an honest player compete against the likes of cheaters?..Some say it is not cheating..this "rush-buy thingey" but I dont know what or how to do it, and have heard of "other" cheats, but whn you start even and within 30-40 turns you are so far behind looks like you didnt build anymore than a couple cities..then just buyilt nothing..in the powergraph..I know the graph doesnt mean everything, but when you have found say 6 cities..maybe 8 + tech in ruins and built asll the caravans you can, but then you see some fella 4-5 times ahead of you...in power, tech and production, say you have 18 cities..using two-three on infrastructure and maybe 30 pw per turn, and they have mines out the kazoo on every city they have..seems kinda suspicious and when they are behind after 20 turns by say 5 tech...20 turns later they are 10 tech ahead + building units 5 times faster than you can..u have all the nice improvements..milss, factories,oil refineries, drug stores..but they are producing 10 times what you are..gotta be cheating..

Now...whistles blowers..either you can be honest..or not..but this aint right..and you folks online MP..know whom you are...

Just wondering how does one do this without sheating??


Yours in Civin

Troll

	22-02-2002 05:26									#2
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I cheat!!!!!!!!

Hey troll, how is it possible for me to cheat w/o settlers!?? I could rush buy granarys till the cows come home......but why? Remember? We exlude ares? av knows I dont cheat.....hell...just because I woop ya, means I cheat? GrrrRRRRRrrrrr!!!


Ok whatever dude......leave and call me a cheater. I think people here know Im not a cheater

	22-02-2002 05:28									#3
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Of course if you think im good, try playing gavrushka or blackice. Christsakes! Dont fling **** around.....you dont know what your talking about.

Im willing to forget you acused me of cheating

	22-02-2002 05:30									#4
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory I cheat!!!!!!!! Hey troll, how is it possible for me to cheat w/o settlers!?? I could rush buy granarys till the cows come home......but why? Remember? We exlude ares? av knows I dont cheat.....hell...just because I woop ya, means I cheat? GrrrRRRRRrrrrr!!! Ok whatever dude......leave and call me a cheater. I think people here know Im not a cheater

I have heard and read you can rush-buy other improvements..and again..maybe you just lie??..but you did say in your self-induced pompous poll..that you CHEAT..and yes you did whoop me..but you cheated doing it..no one can out produce someone that many times over..without cheating..period..

Look yourself in the mirror..not whilst you are ina typical drunken stupor..but whilst you are sober..

Yours In Civin

Troll

	22-02-2002 05:33									#5
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actually what you heard is bogus. The only, I repeat, ONLY Bug I can attest to knowing about is Granarys Rush buying. And that works only using a settler.

	22-02-2002 05:34									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Troll .but you did say in your self-induced pompous poll..that you CHEAT..and yes you did whoop me..but you cheated doing it..no one can out produce someone that many times over..without cheating..period.. Troll

Wanna know how I out-produce?

All 3 of ours games Ive had big mountain ranges with avanced mines in them
*hint hint*

	22-02-2002 05:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Wanna know how I out-produce? All 3 of ours games Ive had big mountain ranges with avanced mines in them *hint hint*

No sir..I remember..but it is ok..and no..I aint taking anything back..and no its not bogus...too many people have admitted using both in pbem..and in MP..

No big deal..you play your way..Ill play mine..but you did cheat..


Yours in Civin

Troll

	22-02-2002 05:48									#8
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Give me your email. I will send you all of my PBEM turns. No foul play.....


and once the other posters come. They can attest, that I dont cheat. Far from it, as I said, I am an amatuer. Try playing Gavrushka or blackice. He is somebody who can get 190,000 production in one of the games.

	22-02-2002 05:49									#9
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Also, you forget. After I get explosives I terraform all forests in the radius and plains into Green Hills and put advanced mines on them.

	22-02-2002 11:11									#10
	Re: Cheating....how does one compete against or even hang with Cheaters? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Troll ...say you have 18 cities..using two-three on infrastructure and maybe 30 pw per turn, and they have mines out the kazoo on every city they have..seems kinda suspicious and when they are behind after 20 turns by say 5 tech...20 turns later they are 10 tech ahead + building units 5 times faster than you can..u have all the nice improvements..milss, factories,oil refineries, drug stores..but they are producing 10 times what you are..gotta be cheating.. ... Just wondering how does one do this without sheating??

I think it's not a good idea to have 30 pw always:

Imagine both players settled on same land (river on forest) with a single settler, player A. set pw to 30 since begining, player B. set pw to 0

Decition 1: Build a settler, after 10 turns player B had finished 1 settler, player A still need 3 turns to finish.

Decition 2: Build a warrior, by turn 12 player B finish warrior

Decition 3: Build a granery, it's turn 13 and player A start a warrior.

Decition 4. Build a settler, it's turn 21 and player B have a granery and is ready to start a settler in 9 turns.

Powergraph review turn 30: player A have 2 cities 1 warrior and is near to finish a granery at capital. Player B have 2 cities, 1 warrior 1, granery and 1 settler.

Who have a better powergraph?


I know player A have some nets, farms and roads, player B have nothing but in other 20 turns player B will have doubled the number of cities of A, now can set pw to 50 or 80 for a couple of turns and could have same PW that A accumulate in 40 turns (well not as much but enough to build some mines)


And BTW to play with someone you think will cheat star twith 0 or 100 gold, remember to rush buy you need money, little money = little cheat

	22-02-2002 18:29									#11
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It's definitivly a geometrical game. Very interesting, BerXpert.

Since, if you afraid that people cheats on a online game, just save all turns (I hope it's possible), then in case of doubt, a judge must analyse the turns and decided if cheat happens or not...
Have you the save game files ?

Such flaming threads are useless and disturbing for other players.

	22-02-2002 19:39									#12
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Ya but our game excluded settlers....so, I only had 13-14 cities, same with he.


oh ya,and with pollution off......heh......I had like 1600 per city.

	22-02-2002 20:08									#13
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The rush buy has been argued both ways a cheat and a game flaw to expoit. What I believe to be a cheat is to agree not to use it and use it anyway...There are many more ways to cheat edited game files, slic commands etc those are blatant cheats.

Usually when one player out plays big time another player doubts set in. Hopefully here with us we teach people tricks of the trade so we are all on an even keel. That ensures great gaming and a challenge to all. This is in principal what we have agreed to so lets continue. I have been told I am cheating many times, once I help the player understand some of the basic points they seem to settle down and play better. In some cases end up a far better player than me.

Soon I hope we will have the strategy thread notes to make them available for all. In the mean time do your best to bring people up to speed on things we have learned collectively. It can only make for better matches and more fun for all

	23-02-2002 05:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior It's definitivly a geometrical game. Very interesting, BerXpert. Since, if you afraid that people cheats on a online game, just save all turns (I hope it's possible), then in case of doubt, a judge must analyse the turns and decided if cheat happens or not... Have you the save game files ? Such flaming threads are useless and disturbing for other players.

No offense to you Mr. ZoboZewarrior, but I started this thread for one reason, and I thank Mr.Blackice for his response. We, that is all of us CTP dedicated gamers, want to play on an even playing field. I cannot prove what I think Saddam is doing, but..he has bragged about cheating and when asked about rush-buying or other strategies, laughs it off as part of the game. If faded..er..um Saddam isnt cheating then......

I >>>>TROLL......Patton...<<<<.or whatever other pseudonym I go by, and I aint the only one whom changes their name.....apologize for accusations, but I aint flaming..I have in the past, but merely ask a question of how does one compete against those that would less than desirable competition levelers.

I didnt start out in this thread saying Faded cheated, he brought his name into this and so I addressed his response.

Faded, I am sorry if I accused you falsely.

But when you laugh about it and I see you admit cheating, then this is how I take it.

I am willing to admit that u have learned tactics far beyond my realmn of gameplay. I took you laughing and admission of cheating as that, you were bragging and taunting!

~extending hand~

This is what I have to offer, for as previously stated, I have no proof, only what i have seen.

The hand is your to take or leave.

Yours In Civin

Troll

	23-02-2002 05:57									#15
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Troll, Faded has never cheated to my knowledge... He really doesn't need to ..... I tell you what..... Play me, You host, and save on a turn by turn basis..... It COULD be that your strategy is not the best, I often get 5 or 6 times ahead on the P.G. of a player that has not played online very much, or has not fully understood the depth of strategy in the game... There is a Multiplayer Strategy guide close to the top in this Forum- give it a read and see what you think.... And the P.G. means nothing until later in the game.... IF you concentrate on city building, you are delaying your P.G. rise, as every settler that settles a new city drops you down on powergraph ( CTP recognises it as a disbanded settler) - it is only when you get city improvements and production up that this changes, also 30% public works reduces the steepness of your powergraph by 30% (again delayed production, or Investment)

There are recognised cheaters..... But there are honest players too- Blackice has crusaded long and hard to identify them and counter there cheats... we can speak privately to point these out to you....

	23-02-2002 06:00									#16
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Troll u about now?? I will chat with you online, and play you??

	23-02-2002 06:11									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Im in cali now gav

	23-02-2002 06:13									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My settings.........

	24-02-2002 01:58									#19
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I've found that a REALLY good way to learn about this game is to volunteer to be a moderator. Sure it's time consuming, but you get EVERY turn by EVERY player and so you can recognise why some people are much higher up the Powergraph than others.

Also I'd recommend that you take a look at the Apolyton Pack Mod. There's a document in it that describes some of the imbalances in Civ CTP and how to exploit them. For example (and an oversimplification) it is nearly always better to build a gold improvement than a science improvement, because the gold goes in your treasury, AND into research. There's also some VERY interesting analysis on which is best government. The main purpose of the Apolyton Pack Mod is to remove those imbalances.

Personally, I think that Civ CTP has a number of techniques which, if you know them, get you up the Powergraph really fast. I know what they are because I've read these documents. Maybe you should too.

	24-02-2002 02:16									#20
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You have just shed some light for me on why PBEM players are not so good in Internet Play PN, - In most games I play PBEM I am far behind on powergraph.... The Reason being I am playing the same way as I would Online, to WIN the game.... PBEMers must (and no doubt you see this) try to clamber to the top of the ratings on a turn x9 to max their points... But almost without exception, I would crush every opponent online (two exceptions Blackice and berXpert) that would be beating me in PBEM play.

	24-02-2002 02:52									#21
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Gav I am on


are you?

	24-02-2002 02:58									#22
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Working Faded! I got up a little late today... can't think why, so I have some Soil Analysis Reports to go through and a Counter Claim against one of the Utility Companies to prepare.... This is one of those days I HATE my life! Maybe something to do with the fact I stopped smoking too......

	24-02-2002 14:12									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka You have just shed some light for me on why PBEM players are not so good in Internet Play PN, - In most games I play PBEM I am far behind on powergraph.... The Reason being I am playing the same way as I would Online, to WIN the game.... PBEMers must (and no doubt you see this) try to clamber to the top of the ratings on a turn x9 to max their points... But almost without exception, I would crush every opponent online (two exceptions Blackice and berXpert) that would be beating me in PBEM play.

quote: I've found that a REALLY good way to learn about this game is to volunteer to be a moderator. Sure it's time consuming, but you get EVERY turn by EVERY player and so you can recognise why some people are much higher up the Powergraph than others.

Me too and I hope the transfer of games to people have the enhanced and the awareness of that fact I would also say MORE people should create and moderate games based of the above FACTS

Most of my games were take over games from other players. Too much stress has been pointed at people who fade out. Yet these games offer the best opportunity to learn. What we need is people to take charge and moderate or jump in and take control...we have that.

The end result is join up particapate in the works here..toss a game out, moderate share some chit have fun learn...

Now back to the theme if I get one more turn in any game where my workers are not where I put them....I will start a thread on the games... play fair...play hard...play be real need help call on anyone of us I have time... we have tried to make this environment clean.honest.and mutual...

So much time too little...er so much little too much time er heh
to much hard drive to many saves. play fair play even have fun share it only makes the challenge better...heck I paid nothing for this game I hope to contribute lots....you?

No insult intended 3:00 am est more to come and btw thanks KEYGEN BIRDY QUINNS MOB SOLVER KLAIR DON SWISSY PN LUNG RICK TRUE Kralj MAX Maestro Slamp Arthur ST Jon FRAZE Phoenixcager Krash King Thor Stavros Notuncommon 420 IF I MISSED SOMEONE MY APPOLOGIES Really thanks for making it happen to begin with

Now lets game...heh be real

	24-02-2002 14:16									#24
	Tired of ads?

After all it is only a game on btw I may be a late start today

	24-02-2002 21:43									#25
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I accept your apology troll, and await your gold payments!

	24-02-2002 21:56									#26
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory I accept your apology troll, and await your gold payments!

Thank you!

And gold have I not Sire, but willingness to be assimilated into the CTP Jedi-Knight!!...

See ya 'round!

Yours In Civin

Troll