22-02-2002 16:22									#1
	Do you do it? Atrocities Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Do you commit them?
Mayor like the PB or minor like nerve stapling and nerve gas.
I rarely do attrocities and I always disable the UN charter.

	22-02-2002 16:32									#2
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I very rarely use them. Economic sanctions suck not to mention you never know if you might want to subjugate someone.

	22-02-2002 18:45									#3
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Against the human AI, never. I use the golden rule: do unto others… Plus, in SP it really isn’t necessary. I haven’t played any competitive MP (only RP-style MP), but I suspect that I’d take the high ground there, too.

I’ve never used a PB. There must be too much Gaian in me since it seems just wrong to blow a nasty hole in Planet, plus killing all those innocent sims feels like a crime against humanity.

That isn’t to say that I haven’t done all sorts of nasty things to the Bugs (short of a PB). Maybe I’m a xenophobe?

Hydro

	22-02-2002 20:13									#4
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I do something in captured cities which is paramount to an atrocity, but isn't on the list of no-no's. When I capture a city and it is full of drones, I turn every single drone into a Talent. This then means that the city cannot feed itself, and every turn the city is reduced by one in population as they slowly starve to death, until there are maybe one or two people in the city. Should this be considered an atrocity? In my book, knowingly starving a populace (even a captured populace) should be considered an atrocity: if I had a conscious, then I'd have nightmares about all those hands reaching up, pleading desperately for help. Instead, I send them my Psych Chaplain to tell them, "there there, there there...."

	22-02-2002 23:23									#5
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I don't like using PB's but in a MP game where I was well behind it seemed the only option open to me. I was able to get half-dozen hits in first and at the same destroying a number of SP's (including CBA!) We now have flood warnings for 5k but since my team-mate is a Pirate it's not something I'm going to complain about!

But it has ruined the game and it will be a slog to the inevitable end....

	23-02-2002 09:15									#6
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Not unless I want to throw a game away. Used a PB once just to see...

	23-02-2002 10:07									#7
	Sits Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thats exactly what Pbs are for! setting the guy back majorly. Sure,the floods will set you back some,just make sure you pressure dome.

	24-02-2002 02:10									#8
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Two scenarios.

Me Pirate.
Me losing.
Me have base full of PBs.
Me nuke enemies to stone age.

Or:
I'm Morgan.
I'm winning.
I've got +2 Planet.
I've got more PBs than the baddie has cities. (Done this many times in MP, even RP-style)
I nuke away his cities, and capture the rest. Then comes the obliterate order.
Done deal.


MAD? Why bother, when you have complete First Strike capability?

	24-02-2002 04:46									#9
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Yes, I do.

I've done them all, from nerve-gassing to nerve stapling. From probe's lauching genetic warfare to Planet Busters....I've done 'em all.

I 've done them when I'm winning and when I'm losing...sometimes just doing it for fun. But I usually make sure that atrocities are repealed. But against Miriam I don't care, I usually launch my 'Busters, then nerve gas.

.....can you tell that I'm a true Hive player now?

	24-02-2002 07:28									#10
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When they're repealed I like to nerve staple conquered cities. Even when drone riots aren't a problem, I do it just for kicks

	24-02-2002 10:58									#11
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Sometimes, particularly when I'm playing as Chairman Yang (see the other "Do You Do It?"). Not so much nerve gas, because it's expensive to install and forces me to drop one of my other special abilities, as nuclear warfare, particularly late in the game.

	24-02-2002 13:13									#12
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I've only ever played single player games, but even then I like to....explore...all aspects of the game....which means committing attrocities up the ying yang

	25-02-2002 05:04									#13
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I never do them.

	25-02-2002 12:44									#14
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I very rarely commit atrocities. Why? Can't say for sure, but it certainly has something to do with my weakling empathic nature Although if my faction is loosing...it might be to much to bear without "exploring all the alternatives".

	25-02-2002 22:15									#15
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I pretty much stay away from them myself. Though in the one-on-one MP game I'm in right now, as Yang, I did a fair amount of nerve stapling early on. I had no commerce, so sanctions were not a concern, and I was under heavy attack from the Uni and desperately needed the extra production. The resulting worm attacks took a pretty heavy toll in formers, so I'm not sure it was worth it... Plus, after only a couple uses of the stapler, I was told it wasn't having any more effect!

In another MP game I'm in, as the Spartans, I'm rolling over the Uni right now and my troops are x-gas equipped, but I haven't needed to use it yet. It's good thing too, since the charter is in effect, and I'm governor in a pact with the PKs, and treaty with the Angels... I'm running fundy/planned and if I lost my commerce, I'd have no income!

	25-02-2002 22:49									#16
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How about probe teams and bioweapons? Can you frame another faction if you do it? Does it cause "pollution"?

	28-02-2002 20:19									#17
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do atrocities if it is military helpful (if the un had been repealed), and If I have to at home (drones and can if police).

	28-02-2002 20:50									#18
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Since I usually play Sp, I rarely use. However, I do use them while role-playing as Yang or Miriam.


Dave

	02-03-2002 23:26									#19
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I almost always play as yang and never use them, but i DO use the tactic of starving out o populations that have drones by turning them into empaths.

Atrocities are almost always unnesceccary, even if your losing a better strategy is to increase industrial production and get heavy infantry,. if you cant do that, capture mindworms. I use very little probe teams in genearal because i choose "knowledge" as a se for almost any faction i play

	03-03-2002 08:26									#20
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quote: Originally posted by SITS I don't like using PB's but in a MP game where I was well behind it seemed the only option open to me. I was able to get half-dozen hits in first and at the same destroying a number of SP's (including CBA!) We now have flood warnings for 5k but since my team-mate is a Pirate it's not something I'm going to complain about!

IIRC Pirate bases can't be flooded out at all. Probably come with a Pressure Dome by default, can't remember...

	04-03-2002 23:58									#21
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I only have SMAC so no bugs to exterminate...

Nerve Staple Gun:
Nerve Gas:
Genetic Warfare: (too bad you can't frame anyone for it!)
Planet Busting: : (just too many penalties )

However against a human, the rule "what goes comes back" will be always stuck in my mind...

Also Sunspot Activity ROCKS!!!

	05-03-2002 00:18									#22
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Only sparingly, and if it is absolutely necessary to win. I have less scruples against AI than against fellow humans, though we'll see in the future. The point is to win, and if you have the tools, why not build the cabinet? However, I try to win by conventional means, and my favourite wins are transcendence and energy market anyway.
I usually try to make my actions fit the faction too. No way Gaia or Cult would planetbust. Hive, spartans, aliens, no problem.

	05-03-2002 19:02									#23
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nervgas..... could win games for you in a few turns.

nervestaple... effective before meeting anyone ... somebody said 'huge map'.

PB.... not worth the effort. If you have they have it. If you have they don't, you can win other way.

all the others are just same things different names.

	06-03-2002 01:57									#24
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Personally, I almost never use atrocities. Unless I'm playing an alien of course. Or the Hive. But that's it!

Though I must admit, I've launched several PBs just for the fun of watching them hit the cities, but I never continue the games when I do that, for some reason. The only times I will nerve staple are before anybody comes around to bother me. The only times I use nerve gas are during sunspot activities or against aliens. But, to be honest, it's very rare that I do that sort of thing.

	06-03-2002 15:40									#25
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quote: nervestaple... effective before meeting anyone ... somebody said 'huge map'.

I just recall that other factions know about the nerve stapling even if you meet them after you've done it. Can anyone confirm this? And if your citizens are still under the influence of stapling after you meet other factions...will they know you did it?

	06-03-2002 18:41									#26
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Shai,


Ohh yes. Once you nerve staple you get a message saying sanctions are in place for x turns (I forget how many years) even if you have met no other factions. Point being in the early game nerve stapling is an effective means to keep base populaces under control. The downside of no trade is essentially nil b/c you haven't:

a) met and treatied/pacted with anyone yet
b) if you have you haven't leaned enuff trade enhancing techs yet to allow a meaningful trade energy


So... if you staple before you meet anyone you do have sanctions in place that more than likely run out before or shortly after you meet them. (or at least thats the plan)

Og

Course my with my playstyle if you need to staple you aren't pumping colony pods out fast enuff or you are leaving your bases completely ungarrisoned thus allowing drones at pop level 2 (transcend).

OTOH I suppose one could argue that stapling is circumstantially OK in order to deal with beuracracy drones in the event you are expanding beyond first warning limits until such time as you are able to plop down rec commons.

	07-03-2002 20:48									#27
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But the problem is that most of the factions just don't like nerve stapling even if you're only doing it to "your own" citizens. It makes it harder to get into treaties. And I recall that they do know you have nerve stapled your citizen even if you do it prior to commlink. So, you may not suffer trade sanctions but you have hard time trying to get other factions to trade with you.

	07-03-2002 21:57									#28
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Shai,

Very True,

Your reputation does play a role in ability to gain treaty and/or pacts.

OTOH if you simply want to conquer and force submissives it normallyisn't a big factor.

It's kinna a moot point for me at least as I almost never perform any atrocities of any sort. I even try to refrain from nerve Gassing Aliens.

Og

	08-03-2002 02:43									#29
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No atrocities. I do it clean.

Maybe it would be another story if the other factions managed to railroad the "repeal charter" on me. But the vote has never been that lopsided yet.

Being a huge fan of "swear a pact to serve me", I am loath to do anything that will jeopardize the likelihood that a beaten faction will surrender to me. So I play nice. Rather than obliterate or starve a vulnerable or uselessly-placed base , I prefer to give them to another submissive. Let him or her worry about its drones and defense.

	11-03-2002 09:58									#30
	I did it once, but never again. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In one SP game a few months ago, Miriam and I were battling for possession of a base on our disputed border. I couldn't get defenders out there quick enough to keep her from taking it, and she didn't defend it adequately, either. I got tired of it and certainly wasn't going to let her keep it, so I obliterated it . After reading that 30,000 citizens were put to death , I shut down the game until the next day. I deleted the saved files from that game and started a new game.
Out of sight, out of mind... or just out of mind .