23-02-2002 01:21									#1
	Poll:Does Civ3 challenge you mentaly? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I seen a lot of threads that says that ppl dont think Civ3 is not enough mentaly challenging. I think it's not a big challenge but not to much. How about you?

	23-02-2002 01:35									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

CIV3 is certainly challenging, but this is mostly because of bonuses the AI gets on Monarch and higher. Sometimes, making up for these can be very hard. The AI's tactics could definately use some improvement. Managing corruption is one of my favorite parts of the game, and the planning of an efficient empire in less than stellar circumstances can often be difficult.

	23-02-2002 01:42									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Requires detailed but flexible planning, player memory for a long number of turns, and a high level of aggressive play against an advantaged AI. I say that's a challenge, although not "brain frying." The new rules (culture, corruption, trade, diplomacy) have taken some getting used to, as well. Played Civ II on Deity all the time, a challenge with a non-ideal start, but not a huge mental challenge. Play Civ III on Monarch, big mental focus requirement, not winning half the time yet. That equals mentally challenging.

	23-02-2002 01:44									#4
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No, but Libertarian does.

	23-02-2002 01:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

In civ 2 I mostly played different scenarios. As we don't have that option yet... I am not playing the types of games I like the most. The AI is good. The stratagies are not simple & forward, thus requiring some good mental bookkeeping. I only win about 30-40% on monarch while in civ2 I won on diety 80-90%. Of course I had several years to learn civ2 and only a couple of months on civ3....

	23-02-2002 02:33									#6
	Am I the Only One? Full PM-box? Change here!

Is it too much to ask that we spell our thread topics correctly?
Am I being unreasonable to think that people should know the difference between "two," "too," and "to?" Can we leave the vowels in our words?

Is this what the future holds? If so, I guess I'll go try to wrestle my 15 minutes of fame from Beat the Geeks on the comedy channel and get it over with.

Grammar: the real mental challenge.

:and isn't it ironic that I had to edit this post because of a missing object:

	23-02-2002 02:45									#7
	Re: Am I the Only One? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Heliodorus Is it too much to ask that we spell our thread topics correctly? Am I being unreasonable to think that people should know the difference between "two," "too," and "to?" Can we leave the vowels in our words? Is this what the future holds? If so, I guess I'll go try to wrestle my 15 minutes of fame from Beat the Geeks on the comedy channel and get it over with. Grammar: the real mental challenge. :and isn't it ironic that I had to edit this post because of a missing object:

Right on topic man!!!

	23-02-2002 03:24									#8
	Remove this text

Civ3 is challenging, but not really in an intellectual manner. A few basic principals need to be understood and applied over and over again. The challenge is to keep a coherant strategy over the course of thousands of decisions. More a test of patience than anything else.

quote: Grammar: the real mental challenge.

The real mental challenge is understanding those who use improper grammar. It takes much less intelligence to only understand a single form of communication, in this case proper English. The language skills of those who post here are quite impressive considering how many people on these boards don't speak English as their native tongue. Go sit in Yahoo chat for a few minutes and then come back to these boards, I'm sure the writing here will look much better!

	23-02-2002 03:26									#9
	Re: Re: Am I the Only One? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Right on topic man!!!

Amen

	23-02-2002 03:43									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Back on topic, yes, Civ3 at least utilizes certain parts of my brain, though I would like more of a logic type challenge (a la chess)

back off topic, I ate a good burger today.

"No sir, I assure you, I speak little to no English. You must have me mistaken for a companion back in your native lands."

	23-02-2002 04:08									#11
	Re: Am I the Only One? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Heliodorus Is it too much to ask that we spell our thread topics correctly? Am I being unreasonable to think that people should know the difference between "two," "too," and "to?" Can we leave the vowels in our words?

That's 1 2 many 2's 4 me dude.

Salve

	23-02-2002 05:21									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If these boards were sockpuppet friendly, I'd be tempted to make an account called "733t Nazi" and go around correcting posts that use standard English.

For example, NYE used "dude" rather than the preferred "d00d".

	23-02-2002 05:35									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Civ III is very challenging, but it's no brain buster by any stretch of the imagination.

Like its predecessors, it contains just enough strategic depth to keep the average strategy gamer enthralled for hours, but doesn't bog your brain down with an excessive amount of micromanagement.

	23-02-2002 08:46									#14
	Tired of ads?

The game is sure challenging at higher difficulty levels (as a vet of Civ2, i have to be very cautious to what I do playing monarch level), but sure could be more deep : when you decide something, advantages and drawbacks are too simple : when choosing your gov., you arbitrate between war and money ; building something only has good consequences except the upkeep cost etc. The choices you make are not really intricate, thus not mentally challenging.
The real challenge comes from diplomacy, where pretty everything is intricate, and you have to think twice when offering something (should I offer them iron and let them build their armies or should I offer them money and let them research more ?). If they're more trade possibilities in the future (food, shields...), the challenge will be great !

	23-02-2002 09:53									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Just a note on what Minuteman said.

quote: Like its predecessors, it contains just enough strategic depth to keep the average strategy gamer enthralled for hours, but doesn't bog your brain down with an excessive amount of micromanagement.

Im a mediocre amateur chess player, not great by any means, but i like to play a good game of it. It bogs down my brain to hell and back, but it doenst have micromanagement at all.

Micromanagement doesnt bog down brains. Brains bog down brains.

Now, i didn't just say that so i could say something cool, but I find it to be kinda true. It depends on how involved in the game you are. Now, in that vote at the top of the page, I can vote twice. It does fry my brain, cuz I let it fry my brain. I devote a great deal of thought to whatever Civ3 game im playing. Doesnt make me a worse or better player, i just like to throw myself more into the game, like every decision might be life or death.

However, I could also write a book while playing a game of civ3. But that has more to do with the excesively long AI turns. But thats for another board.....

Basically, i believe it is more the player that determines how mentally challenging a game can be. Of course, a game has to be quality to allow a player to give it that chance.

Oh, and just a quick note on what I think of Civ 3. When Germany outrageously and without reason, declares war with my peaceful civ not more than 50 turns into a game, I feel the AI must be thinking as hard as me, or harder. Just the spontenaity (sp?) of the AI is amazing to me sometimes. And, of course, the scripts they have sometimes for denying an offer keeps me around to lmao.

Hope i get some support.

Ninot

	23-02-2002 12:25									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by ACooper No, but Libertarian does.

Now I might be wrong here, but it seems to me like you're itching to start something. It's been nice and peaceful around here since the patch came out, can't we just leave it at that? Why try and stir things up by laying down such an obvious gauntlet?

	23-02-2002 12:57									#17
	Remove this text

Perhaps there is a correlation between the perceived mental challenge of the game and the number of straight hours you've been playing (or reading forums for that matter).

I've noticed that after 12 hours of game play I tend to forget about crossing i's and dotting t's . . . err. . you know what I mean.

	23-02-2002 21:27									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There is definately a correlation there.

I hoowever notice that mental challeneg change as the game progresses. I play monarch, and I think starting is usually enough of a challenge, especially when you have a plan and the AI forces you to adapt and war and bla bla bla. However, I think that once I'm in the industrial age I get to a point where I am a micro management perfectionist and while this takes loads of time in standardisation of defences and production, it's not what I call mentally challenging, actually tedious. Once you are organised there are not many wars beyond the industrial age that I can't handle. At this point I COULD write an essay as I play. I frequently do as I usually play a HUGE map with everybody and that takes AGES between turns.

I don't really like using the AI workers or governors, as I don't think it's as good as it was in SMAC, they make loads of mistakes. Ofcourse sometimes I'm forced to as it takes SO long to micro manage 60+ cities...

	24-02-2002 20:14									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Civ3 has enough strategic depth to keep me satisfied. Of course, as aahz_capone pointed out, strategic decision-making and planning slowly vanishes throughout the game, because when you get to the industrial era, the game is already won (or lost), most of the time.