23-02-2002 01:55									#1
	Wheeled Settlers Get a bigger avatar today!

For those of you get annoyed at the AI building everywhere, but don't want to go through a major hassle with food bonuses to control it, I've found an easy way to limit those pesky settlers. Simply make them a Wheeled unit. They won't be able to build in the jungles anymore, and any large mountain ranges will stop them cold. And it makes sense, if you think that they're bound to have wagons loaded up with their personal belongings.

	23-02-2002 02:23									#2
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Sounds good, now everytinh needed is someone to bring back the good old Civ1 settler graphics (but improved).

	23-02-2002 02:34									#3
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I like these ones actually. I think they've done a really good job with the unit graphics/animations. Now all I have to do is stop those bloody Riflemen from firing their guns everytime they move.

	23-02-2002 03:02									#4
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Good Idea, unless you start out a game stuck in the middle of a jungle stuck behind a mountain range.....

Just playing on a random map this happens to me more often than not. The new graphics are good, but it would be more realistic to have a wagon picture.

Just my 2 cents. I do like the idea. Perhaps I will try it out this weekend.

	23-02-2002 03:12									#5
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Good Idea, unless you start out a game stuck in the middle of a jungle stuck behind a mountain range.....

Yes I admit that's a bit of a problem. But at least it's easy enough to start a new game. I'd rather have more strategic elements to deal with than a good starting position.

	23-02-2002 03:19									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Willem I like these ones actually. I think they've done a really good job with the unit graphics/animations. Now all I have to do is stop those bloody Riflemen from firing their guns everytime they move.

Yeah, they are good, but if they are going to be wheeled you could use the settler wagons.

	23-02-2002 03:42									#7
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hey! this sounds like a good way to impliment my idea for not letting settlers settle on jungle. now to stop them going on tundra and desert, but i dont think there ias a otion for this is ther...

	23-02-2002 05:23									#8
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Making Settlers wheeled would make perfect sense. Together with making them more expensive, that would prevent early expansion. There should be an upgrade of the Settler, however.

	23-02-2002 05:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man hey! this sounds like a good way to impliment my idea for not letting settlers settle on jungle. now to stop them going on tundra and desert, but i dont think there ias a otion for this is ther...

Not directly, but I've managed to do it by adjusting the food values. Make your citizens use 3 food, then remove food from Tundra and Desert, even Hills if you like, that's what I've done as well. Then increase your irrigation bonuses for Grasslands, Plains and Floodplains. The AI will still try to build, but the city will starve out of existance by the next turn.

It works quite nicely, the AI is still expanding fairly rapidly, but now it's not this mad rush for territory at the first of the game. Plus it forces it to build more Workers instead of Settlers right away. I can actually do more than just plan the location of my next city, or control a horde of Settlers all being completed at once.

The main problem with this approach though is that you end up having to make some compensations in several other areas, like shields and road bonuses. So it's taking awhile to fine tune things. It doesn't help matters any when they change the rules on me, and I have to rethink my plans. Oh well, at least it was a good change. BTW, I've come up with a name for my mod, The Builder's Dream Mod.

	23-02-2002 19:09									#10
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Nice name, brings back fun thoughts of my 12 mega cities all 38pop 60+ production, in civ2.

if the AI's cities just startve straight away, how does it effect the colonies? or havn't you tried this yet?

	23-02-2002 19:27									#11
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man Nice name, brings back fun thoughts of my 12 mega cities all 38pop 60+ production, in civ2. if the AI's cities just startve straight away, how does it effect the colonies? or havn't you tried this yet?

It doesn't matter about the colonies, they're just there. They don't require any food in order to exist, only cities do.

	23-02-2002 22:20									#12
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i meant, does the AI still just plonk cities right next to em, destroying the colonie, and then the city starves?

	23-02-2002 22:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man i meant, does the AI still just plonk cities right next to em, destroying the colonie, and then the city starves?

Ah yes, I see what you mean. I hadn't really thought of that. Oh well, that's the price I'll have to pay I guess. So far it hasn't come up.

	23-02-2002 23:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Willem The AI will still try to build, but the city will starve out of existance by the next turn. It works quite nicely, the AI is still expanding fairly rapidly, but now it's not this mad rush for territory at the first of the game.

Even if the 'mad rush for territory' is eliminated, I'd be hesitant to add a feature that the AI obviously can't cope with. And it's the same with wheeled settlers - in my test games for korn's blitz mod, I've observed AI civs that were 'bottled in' by jungle and/or large mountain chains, failed to expand and later became easy prey for me or other AI civs.

	24-02-2002 00:34									#15
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Something I just tried for the heck of it was I made settlers actually become obsolete with nationalism (Ie set settlers to upgrade to rifleman, basically so at the mid-point in the game no new settlers could be built)

It was interesting, but really only impacted war....by the time I got to nationalism every inch of land on earth was settled :P The only real change was burned cities stayed burned....except for the wimpy japanese who were behind in tech until I finally got bored and gave them a "gift" of nationalism :P

Anyways, I think Id like it if only colonies were considered to automatically have the harbor & airport improvements once it makes sense for them to have them, so unsettled land could still be controlled.


----
One thing Im going to try is this modification on a huge map with 16 civs...only having settlers expire at more like feudalism. Mostly to see if the extra empty space that results makes the game run faster in later ages.

	24-02-2002 01:52									#16
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep Even if the 'mad rush for territory' is eliminated, I'd be hesitant to add a feature that the AI obviously can't cope with. And it's the same with wheeled settlers - in my test games for korn's blitz mod, I've observed AI civs that were 'bottled in' by jungle and/or large mountain chains, failed to expand and later became easy prey for me or other AI civs.

Well that's always the problem with modding, you never really know what the end result might be. So far though, the "starving settlers" approach has worked out fairly well. They may be wasting their resources by building in impossible locations, but they're still expanding and making me hustle for my territory. Though not quite as much as before. I'm not sure about the Wheeled thing yet, I haven't tried it long enough to gauge the results.

But overall, for me at least, the game is much more comfortable to play, while still being a challenge. Maybe that's just because of my game style, I don't know, I haven't had anyone else play my modifications yet, so I can't be certain. The bottom line though is that I enjoy the way it's playing more than I did before, and that's basically all that matters.

	24-02-2002 13:45									#17
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Can anyone test such a setup: have 2 pop whelled settler and 3/4 pop normal settler ? Will AI use both ?

	24-02-2002 23:40									#18
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s3d, i was going to suggest something like that (though i was going to make the settlers more expensive in terms of production rather than population)

hmm. if we were to try and work this out logically (a poor idea when talking about a civ game, i know), would the ability to carry more food and perhaps travel faster (a useful feature for wheeled settlers) outweigh the added cost of the wagons, when settling on a cost for the different settlers?

	25-02-2002 02:39									#19
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Some thoughts on boxed in civs with wheeled settlers.

*Really like the one-two punch of wheeled and 3 food along with the food elimination for tundra, hills, ect.

*Think you could manage the boxed in settler stuff two ways:

1. Go with more civs on bigger boards - they can't all be boxed in.
Like this anyway - some live, some die - more of a bell curve.

2. Stay away from world types that have more mountains, jungle, ect - stay at least temperate and middle of the road on world age.

3. To address the less mountains, less jungle therefore less rubber, et. al - massage where resources can appear, and their frequency some.

The settlers to riflemen is an interesting idea.

	25-02-2002 03:32									#20
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Well it's not really that big of a problem since all you have to do is build a road out to where you want to build. Wheeled units can travel over those terrain if there's a road. And if there's resources there, the AI will no doubt build a colony there eventually, which will open the way for a Settler. So it won't stop it from building in Jungles completely, just delay it.

	25-02-2002 05:08									#21
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Here is an icon for the units_32.pcx if someone wants to make a 'wheeled settler'
I stole it from civfanatics CivII forum

Attachment: settler_wheeled.gif
This has been downloaded 438 time(s).

	25-02-2002 05:15									#22
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There is one bug with wheeled settlers:

You can unload them to jungle from Galley.

	25-02-2002 05:57									#23
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Not a problem really. Like I said, they'll be able to get in there eventually anyway, so it doesn't matter much if they come by boat. At least it limits their options for awhile so they don't build everywhere right away.

	26-02-2002 00:10									#24
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playng a game with wheeled settlers now, it took till 1600 for the AI to bother building a rd in the jungle, so there is still only 3 AI cities there.

	26-02-2002 00:20									#25
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Thanks for the info, I'm pleased to see it works. I like the idea of thinking about the terrain strategically, and that gives me one more tool to work with. I really didn't like that mad rush at the beginning of the game in order to get as much territory as possible. I find it much more relaxing now.

	27-02-2002 01:07									#26
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update: now past 1900, the AI dosnt expand into jungle, though the french did goto the trouble of clearing one massive area that was already more or less with in their borders (but Joan can do what she likes).

more colonies been built to.

	27-02-2002 01:55									#27
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Something I was thinking of the other day, modified by what's in this thread:

Make two Settler units. The no-tech one has 1 movement point, costs 3 population, and can go anywhere. Make a higher one (Wagon) at a slightly later tech (maybe just The Wheel) that has 2 movement points, costs 2 population, but is wheeled.

Basically this gives two options. The AI (and the player) COULD still settle in the lousy areas, but with the type of unit it'd prefer to build (the Wagon) it'd be limited to normal areas. The problem doesn't seem to be so much that the AI wants to settle these areas, it seems more like he builds a lot of extra Settlers and needs to do something with them, and hey, there's plenty of open room over there. Look at how many times, after the map has filled up, you'll still kill a Settler by attacking a city. Players make them as they need them, the AI makes them and then tries to find something to do with them.

I've done a similar thing for Workers; at Replaceable Parts I added the "Engineer" unit (0/1/2) with higher movement, a 1 defense (so he can't be captured) and he can be Airlifted. Except, in this case the Worker upgrades; for the Settlers it'd be nice to keep both varieties.

	28-02-2002 15:35									#28
	Adding new Improvements/Wonders Remove this text

Hi there, I am wondering if I have to create a civlopedia entry for new improvements and wonders i create, or would just copying them with the Multitool and renaming hem be enough??

	01-03-2002 00:20									#29
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I like the actual setlers... are nice

	01-03-2002 01:51									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Spatzimaus Make two Settler units. The no-tech one has 1 movement point, costs 3 population, and can go anywhere. Make a higher one (Wagon) at a slightly later tech (maybe just The Wheel) that has 2 movement points, costs 2 population, but is wheeled.

This might not be a bad approach really. I've just been playing a game where the Zulus are trapped behind a large expanse of jungle and not able to expand in my direction. Which is kind of nice in a way since I also have the Japanese to deal with in the area, but it makes the game a little less exciting. As it looks right now, well into the Middle Ages, Shaka is never going to bother sending his Workers in to build roads. I've managed to take a nice spot with 3 Dyes that was right under his nose. Obviously the AI workers aren't very smart about building roads or colonies.