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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:17
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Please Darth, read this. I hate it when I make long rebuttles, and no one responds.
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Originally posted by darthmolar
A bigot excercises his or her first amendment right. This is an act of upholding freedom. I am a bigot, but I stand by other people's free agency.
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Do you really? Would you really sit idly by if your state legalized Same Partner Civil Unions?
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Racists do. I am not a racist. All people stem from the same line. However, some things are clearly right and some things are clearly wrong. Maybe you can't see this simple fact. |
CLEARLY RIGHT AND WRONG?! WHO THEY HELL ARE YOU TO DETERMINE, MUCH LESS TELL ME WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG?! I'm surprised no one jumped on this particular line earlier. Maybe YOU can't see the simple fact that because YOU think its wrong doesn't MAKE it wrong. Telling me it is CLEARLY wrong is saying that my OPINION is wrong, which I have never said throughout this post. I have disagreed with others, but never came out and told them they were wrong. So DON'T play that game, you'll lose. Period.
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I am not a homophobe. I do not fear homosexuals. I simply think the act is vulgar. That is my opinion and my free right to speak on that. I loathe green bale peppers, but that does not mean that I fear them either. |
You seem to think that this entire post is pertaining to you. I wasn't even thinking of you. I dislike homophobes. If you are "not one", you have no reason to comment.
But this does pertain to you: How do you feel about Anal Sex when had with a female? Or about lesbians who use, uh, pieces of equipment?
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Conservatives (at least in the USA) do not discount the principles that this country was founded on. Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness is the basis for the constitution, which conservatives wish to uphold, and in some cases restore. Liberals have made countless changes to the constitution over the years, changes which were unnecessary. Not all of those who are religious try to erase the barrier between church and state, which is another founding principle of these United States. You need to have knowledge before you speak. |
Such as what? End to prohibition? End to slavery? Equal Sufferage? Basic Civil Rights? Oh, those unnecessary changes!
Eh, I specifically said that seperation between church and state WAS a founding principle that many DO try to do away with.
Conservatives:
- Disregard Liberty when they put saftey of the homeland over privacy. I will not support giving up my civil liberties in order to remain safe. I will not allow my life to even remotely become 1984.
- Disregard Persuit of Happiness CONSTANTLY, such as: No same partner unions, contraception is a bad thing (understandably to the far-right wingers), destroy programs to help the needed. The only happiness they care for is that of the upper-class.
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Again you show your ignorance. The second amendment is vital to our nation and constitution. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. Criminal-minded people will not give up their weapons regardless of what laws are passed. I am pro-life. I am for the baby's choice. HA HA!!! |
In the words of Eddie Izzard, "I think the gun helps. Standing there and going 'Bang' isn't going to kill to many people." The intent is there, but the tool isn't. Don't you realize that it is gun lobbiests who give the criminals leeway, even if it is not meant? If there wasn't the NRA and all this other stuff keeping guns out there, criminals would have a lot harder time. Its common knowledge that crime is DOWN when there are no guns.
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I support the death penalty. I support the rights of unborn children. I think that women who have numerous abortions as a means of birth control should have their tubes tied. How would you like to have been aborted. Probably did not think about that did you? I am also not a hypocrite. I practice what I preach. |
I support the death penalty in severe cases (child molestation/rape, officer killer, serial killer), but I do not claim to be pro-life.
I agree. I think that partial birth abortions are wrong. I think that having many abortions is wrong. However, abortions MUST exist. Women who are RAPED have no choice whether or not they have sex. Women who will DIE must decide who to live, who to die. Some DO choose for themselves to die, but I would not like to grow up without a mother.
Don't you EVER say that I've never thought about it before. I HAVE! My mother had a miscarraige.
Here's my thought. My mother had a miscarraige before she had me. She believes that I was not yet ready to be born. Therefore, my SOUL still exists, whether she had had and abortion or fifteen. If she was to have a child, I would eventually come. That is why I believe that if a woman is raped or if she will die, abortion is ok, because the only thing that is gone is the body, not the soul. Also, I think the same if she has had one because she is not yet ready, and there would be no one to support the child. It will come eventually.
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I am not a fundalmentalist. |
Never said you were.
On a side note, we may disagree Kaak, but this has been the most exhilerating thread in a long time. I know I've said this a few times, but I have to repeat myself. Posts from EVC and Gianny are frivolous. This has substanance. Thanks  .
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Guynemer
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I honestly don't get it.
Why is homosexuality "wrong"?
I want a concrete, proven reason. Not opinion. I want to know why EVERYONE should regard it as "wrong," why everyone should think of it with the same loathing and hatred we feel when we think of pedophilia.
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Kaak
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Guy: there is no factual evidence pointing to homosexuality being wrong, and it was never proposed that there was. This thread started with an opinion, and the assertion that my opinion my be wrong.
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darthmolar
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I'm sorry if my strong words offend your puny ears. |
What big words you have. Your words betray your age.
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I probably have access to more money than you do, despite being 18. |
What point are you trying to make? That you are young and have not yet experienced much of the world is obvious. I can say that despite being 30, being a father, having a family, paying bills, and owning a business.
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Don't be so quick to judge people. |
Why not, you are.
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Do you know who Matthew Shephard was? |
That has nothing to do with topic. That was assault and murder. Plain and simple. Many have been killed out of fear and hatred. Some because of differing religious beliefs. Just because I think homosexuality is wrong does not mean I will attack and kill someone. Grow up.
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There is a very real threat by those who are intolerant to verbally and physically abuse homosexuals and bisexuals. |
There is a very real threat by those who are violent and lack self control, regardless of whether or not they hate gays, blacks, or people named Bill. Violence is violence. All assaults, rapes, and homocides are acts of hate, not just those against gays and minorities. There have been cases were a group of openly gay men have sexually assaulted straight men, other gay men, and even children. Is that any different.
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Naturally, I'm not too fond of those who are intolerant of homosexuals or bisexuals. |
However, you seem to be fond of those who are intolerant of those with morals. I am not intolerant of homosexuals, only disgusted by their behavior. I am intolerant of child sex offenders.
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You have the same views as racists did in the 60s. |
How so?
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by darthmolar
What big words you have. Your words betray your age. |
I must keep them small for your benefit.
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What point are you trying to make? That you are young and have not yet experienced much of the world is obvious. I can say that despite being 30, being a father, having a family, paying bills, and owning a business. |
I've experienced more than you have, especially in this field.
Don't chalk this one up to experience: All you know is the straight life. You just backfired on yourself.
I don't need to judge anything. Kaak already proclaimed himself the bigot, so by me calling him a bigot I'm not judging him, but rather stating the obvious, providing he admitted it.
And since you admit to sharing the same views, you are also a bigot.
What you saw above is what is called "logic".
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That has nothing to do with topic. That was assault and murder. Plain and simple. Many have been killed out of fear and hatred. Some because of differing religious beliefs. Just because I think homosexuality is wrong does not mean I will attack and kill someone. Grow up. |
No, but it dramatically increases the chances that you will kill somebody because they're gay.
That's what happened with Shephard. He was killed because he was gay. That is fact, as proven in the courts.
That's also why you're being met with such hostility.
Did you know gay male teenagers make up the highest specific demographic for suicides? Do you know why that is? It's people like you who tell them they're wrong, immoral, disgusting, and essentially worthless.
Don't you dare act surprised when people don't give you a warm welcome with your bigoted attitude.
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There is a very real threat by those who are violent and lack self control, regardless of whether or not they hate gays, blacks, or people named Bill. Violence is violence. All assaults, rapes, and homocides are acts of hate, not just those against gays and minorities. There have been cases were a group of openly gay men have sexually assaulted straight men, other gay men, and even children. Is that any different. |
Can you provide me some links where a gay man beat up a straight man just because he was straight? Thanks. 
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However, you seem to be fond of those who are intolerant of those with morals. I am not intolerant of homosexuals, only disgusted by their behavior. I am intolerant of child sex offenders. |
Wait a second here.
You said you shared Kaak's viewpoints, and here you are saying you're not intolerant of homosexuals. What is it? Do you dislike them and agree that they can be banned from Baylor college, or do you tolerate them? You can't sit on the fence.
You dislike people for who they are.
Racists in the 60s disliked blacks because of the color of their skin.
You dislike people because of their sexual orientation.
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darthmolar
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quote:
Do you really? Would you really sit idly by if your state legalized Same Partner Civil Unions? |
I would say my piece, but I would not stand in their way. In Utah I doubt this will ever happen. Utah, the best place to raise a family, best hospital care for children. However, has the worst drivers in the entire USA.
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WHO THEY HELL ARE YOU TO DETERMINE, MUCH LESS TELL ME WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG?! |
I am a free citizen of the United States. However, I am trying to determine anything for you. Why do you feel threatened by me?
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You seem to think that this entire post is pertaining to you. |
No I don't. Assumptions can be dangerous.
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But this does pertain to you: How do you feel about Anal Sex when had with a female? Or about lesbians who use, uh, pieces of equipment? |
Gave anal sex to my ex-wife. She liked it. I found it repulsive. Lesbians/gays can do what they wish, I just don't want to have it shoved in my face, nor in my child's face. I have a sense of decency. I want what is best for my kid.
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Conservatives: Disregard Liberty when they put saftey of the homeland over privacy. I will not support giving up my civil liberties in order to remain safe. I will not allow my life to even remotely become 1984. |
Not true. You should get your facts straight before you reply. I will not and do not support giving up my civil rights, regardless of the outcome. My beliefs state that the constitution should be upheld...always!
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- Disregard Persuit of Happiness CONSTANTLY, such as: No same partner unions, contraception is a bad thing (understandably to the far-right wingers), destroy programs to help the needed. The only happiness they care for is that of the upper-class. |
This is absurd. Conservatives do not disregard Persuit of Happiness, unless such happiness comes at the expense of the innocent. Case in point: Child molesters. Currently the American Civil Liberties Union is trying to get equal rights for pedophiles, allowing their sexual behavior to be legalized with consent of a child. This act by the ACLU truly shows that they are a renegade group of money grubbing attorneys. Liberals only care about the upper-class. The welfare programs in place right now keep those on such programs right were they are. These liberal programs don't encourage people to stand on their own two feet.
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If there wasn't the NRA and all this other stuff keeping guns out there, criminals would have a lot harder time. |
Where on earth do you get your information? Let me see here, drugs are illegal, yet easy for any one to get a hold of. Criminals have no troubla at all getting a hold of drugs, so why do you think by the same token that if guns were illegal that criminals would have a harder time getting their hands on them?
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Its common knowledge that crime is DOWN when there are no guns. |
Australlia outlawed firearms. Crime is now at an all time high in that country. Your reasoning skills are truly astounding.
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Don't you EVER say that I've never thought about it before. I HAVE! My mother had a miscarraige. |
My mother also had a miscarriage. One before me, three after. two were twins seven months along. I myself am a parent. I have far more experience than you.
I think you should read the Constitution of the United States and the Declaration of Independence. I have them both framed.
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darthmolar
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Asher, again you prove my point. I am not being hostile, only giving my opinions. Its is you and those like you who are being hostile towards me. What is it that makes you feel so threatened by me? I am not going to harm you, nor am I going to stop making you gay or whatever. So why are you so afraid of my opinion? More people have been brutilized because of opinions like mine than people being brutilized for being gay. Study your history kid, you may learn a thing or two. Now I have more important things to attend to.
Good night to all.
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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
Guy: there is no factual evidence pointing to homosexuality being wrong, and it was never proposed that there was. This thread started with an opinion, and the assertion that my opinion my be wrong. |
Okay. Now, kindly explain why you hold this opinion. Thanks.
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Kaak
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you can see what kind of loop that would get into if i repeated myself for every person to come to the thread.
Not going to do it. as for homos and paedophilia, the thought process is simple. SOME people argue that homosexuality is okay because it is not a choice, it is a product of nature or nurture.
IF that makes homosexuality okay, then why would it not make paedophilia okay? Do you think paedophiles have more choice as to what turns them on than do homosexuals?
And don't try to throw the "age of consent" arguement. That term is relatively infantile in the human history. Until a couple hundred years ago, 12-15 was a common age for marriage.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
Not going to do it. as for homos and paedophilia, the thought process is simple. SOME people argue that homosexuality is okay because it is not a choice, it is a product of nature or nurture.
IF that makes homosexuality okay, then why would it not make paedophilia okay? Do you think paedophiles have more choice as to what turns them on than do homosexuals? |
Please dont tell me that, even after this thread, you still don't understand the difference between homosexuality and paedophiles?
Paedophiles exploit children.
Homosexuality is between consenting adults.
There is a clear and distinct difference here, please...please...please apply yourself, think really hard, and figure that out for yourself.
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And don't try to throw the "age of consent" arguement. That term is relatively infantile in the human history. Until a couple hundred years ago, 12-15 was a common age for marriage. |
It's a known fact that a child cannot make those types of decisions properly. Their brains just haven't developed that far yet.
Please don't turn it into an age of consent thing though, that's not what it is. In the vast majority of paedophilia cases, the child does not consent and is forced into it by an adult.
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Kaak
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asher, i wasn't refering to child abuse. I was talking about people being turned on by children. Looking at pictures of 16 and 17 YOs != abuse. Lots of 16 and 17 YOs are very sexually active as well.
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Kaak
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*sigh* i'm not on a crusade to change anyone. Have you seen me post anything that would lead you to that conclusion? But I don't think it is right. I don't have to agree with it, and I don't have to like it.
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Kaak
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quote:
If the pedos do not touch anyone, do not harm anyone, why the hell do you care? |
Why does the gov't? screw it, lets just go ahead and legalize teen pronography...
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Dr Zoidberg
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Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Let me give you an example.
Karmat X has presented his views, often in a very blunt fashion, which to me seemed a bit too anti-israeli to be coming simply from a political disagreement. I'm not sure though. Possibly he's just read too much propoganda 
One Israeli quickly snapped at him and called him names etc. while I didn't. This "show" didn't add anything to the Israeli claim and I purposefully distanced myself from the outcry, no matter whether I shared the views or not.
It took several more pages for me to accuse Karmat of reading nazi porn, as I believe I called it. I was quite tired at that time, and decided I've had enough, since I can't continue serious conversation. So I "banned myself" from that forum for some time.
Because, whether Karmat is a Nazi or not, if instead of arguing with him I start get raving mad - I lose. It's as simple as that.
There are Imran and Ramo and Chegitz whose views are very very conflicting with mine, and they criticize Israel alot, and still I respect their right to do so, and I have never suspected any of them of anti-semetism, even though their views often coincide with Karmat's views. |
Siro, you see to be unable to separate anti-zionism from anti-semitism. I am a anti-zionist but I´m NOT a anti-semite or anti-Israeli. There´s a difference there. And if you don´t see the difference you´re the bigot. I also find it peculiar, to say the least, that you accept similar views as mine in other people just because they´re more eloquent. Would that mean you would respect a nazi if he presented his view in a "civilized" manner? 
And Siro, it´s Kamrat, not Karmat. If you want you can call me KX for short...
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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
you can see what kind of loop that would get into if i repeated myself for every person to come to the thread.
Not going to do it. as for homos and paedophilia, the thought process is simple. SOME people argue that homosexuality is okay because it is not a choice, it is a product of nature or nurture.
IF that makes homosexuality okay, then why would it not make paedophilia okay? Do you think paedophiles have more choice as to what turns them on than do homosexuals?
And don't try to throw the "age of consent" arguement. That term is relatively infantile in the human history. Until a couple hundred years ago, 12-15 was a common age for marriage. |
:sigh: Well folks, I tried. I really, really tried to bring this thing full circle, to try to get somewhere before we hit the big 500, and to do it without ad hominems. Rather silly of me, I suppose.
You see Kaak, I'm not angry anymore. Just sad. Sad that, here in 2002, people are still PROUD of their ignorance. I really wanted to help. Too bad.
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27-02-2002 06:02
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