24-02-2002 05:08									#1
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Hello everyone this is my first post.

Anyway I've been reading this forum for some time now and I hear of people who say they got in front of the AI in technology. I'm having trouble doing this on regent, usually the AI is 2-3 techs ahead of me and it never wants to trade them to me. My first plan is to attack and kill (almost kill) one AI civ then to build culture then more army and kill another AI civ. If I go to war early which I always do, how and when do you eventually get in front of the AI in techs?

	24-02-2002 12:59									#2
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I don't believe that there is any one perfect strategy that will allow you to take the lead in technology. I do follow a similar pattern to you, however, and I am able to take a lead in the industrial period.

First, I reduce research and focus on military tech. I trade as much as possible, but all I'm really after is iron working, horseback riding, and mathematics. If I can't get them, well, warrior code and the wheel will do. I try to research something to trade, but since the patch 1.17 it doesn't much matter, I get beat to techs. Ceremonial burial is a priority as well. Often I have to buy techs. When the time comes to sell my map, I sell it to everyone I know on the same turn. See to it that they all have something you want.

I expand via war in the early game and at the end of the war I extort technology from the loser as part of the peace agreement. However, it's important to remember that you can only trade techs that you have the prerequisites for. An example: a civ has both warrior code and horseback riding, which requires warrior code. You can't demand horseback riding as part of the peace treaty unless you already know warrior code. So, if you see that your enemy has horsemen, you'd trade with another civ, if possible, for warrior code so that you can demand horseback riding at the end of the war. Of course, you'd research something else to save time. You should always keep an eye out for tell-tales such as units or abilities. If a civ can built galleys or trade maps, you know they have map making and should plan in accordance.

After the first war I'm in good shape, more or less up to date on tech, owning at least two luxuries--hopefully three, and the biggest civ that I know. As soon as peace begins, I want to revolt to republic. Hopefully, I've traded/extorted currency and construction, but usually I have to research the republic myself. When the end of the war is in sight, I focus on infrastructure, even to the expense of police and basic city garrisons. Marketplaces and aquaducts mainly, with colliseums for cities that don't need aquaducts and that have plenty of food. Newly captured cities get temples; core cities should already have them. I don't use population rush.

So, hear we are at the end of the ancient and we've got two to go before I finally get the tech lead. Think I'll take a break.

	24-02-2002 14:25									#3
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OK, so it's the beginning of the medieval. Looking back on my earlier post, I see that I left out one idea: If you don't need a tech, don't get it unless it's free. Monarchy, for example, is very low on my list of priorities. I'll accept it if it gets thrown in with another deal. Literature isn't required to move on, but it has the library and thus is needed. It's always a judgement call, with the exception of monarchy and possibly free artistry. Chivalry, for example: unless I'm at war, there's not much point in getting it. Military tradition is in the same era. If I'm playing a culture such as Japan, sure, I'll research chivalry. I'll start a damn war, too, because an early medieval era golden age helps with getting wonders.

Again, there is no one strategy that will yield a certain tech lead. I'm going to use my current game as an example of a medieval age strategy.

Germany, standard map, continents. Berlin is located quite well in the center of a large continent. The English to the south, the Chinese to the north. The Chinese had the better land, so they were the victim. I beat them down to two cities, setting me up pretty well. I remained peaceful after that, and the Germans, being scientific, get monotheism free when entering the medieval.

The medieval period did not go so well. I had a good core group of cities, but was isolated from the other 5 civs. Out of the important medieval wonders, all I managed was JS Bach's. That was, to say the least, a disappointment. Typically, I like to get the Sistine, and maybe Leonardo's or Smith's. Bach's is fine, though. Fine, fine, fine. Panzers fix everything.

In this situation, I focused on the social side of the tech tree. Education was a priority, and from there I was able to get music theory, which got me my one medieval wonder. After that, I went for democracy. Banking, another infrastructure tech, is one of democracy's requirements, so that's cool.

I had just got democracy when a French ship appeared off my coast. Eagerly, I contact them. Other than luxuries, I had printing press (and therefore democracy), music theory, and communications with the English and Chinese to trade. Democracy is the only thing worth much. Music theory, since JS Bach's is complete, is now worth 1 G.

I trade printing press for communications initially. Rinse, repeat, until I'm in contact with all. I also have luxuries I can trade, but only to France, who therefore is the only civ with navigation or magnetism, a bit of a relief, really.

I then trade democracy for tech. By trading democracy in sequence, I got the entire mechanical (I split the medieval tech tree into mechanical vs. social) side of the tech tree, up to chemistry, for democracy. At the end of trading France has navigation and other than that I'm even with everybody, not counting Japan and England, both of which are backward. In one turn I've nearly left the medieval from being halfway through.

I can't recall if I traded for metallurgy or if I had to research it, but I'm pretty sure I had to research both magnetism and theory of gravity, which completed the period, and I get nationalism as a freebie.

With magnetism I can trade luxuries with the other large civs. While it's nice to get luxuries for my people, JS Bach's effect makes luxuries less important, and I can focus on trading luxuries for gold or tech, mostly gold.

Now comes the part where I take the lead, and that's the Theory of Evolution. A lot of small wonders become available in this period straddling the late medieval and the early industrial. I set my core cities to build them, but typically switch. I switch them when factories come, as industrialization is a big priority. After that, I typically go for sanitation.

I was the first civ to get steam power, and I traded it off to all the majors. I also declared war on England, because they had coal and several tradable resources. It worked out really well. I got military tradition while trading off steam power, and I got two great leaders. That last bit of luck made it possible to get both the ToE and Universal Sufferage, and then save the production I had built up toward ToE for the Hoover Dam.

Some review:

Extort tech as peace condition after early war. Make sure that you get the most possible techs by trading prior to peace.
Republican and democratic governments when possible, that is as soon as possible. Note that government techs are valuable in trade.
Build up infrastructure.
Scientific attribute comes in handy.
Specialize on one area in your research to gain trade advantage.
Avoid researching dead end or unnecessary techs when possible.
Trade with the aim to handicap your rivals.
A major goal is to pull ahead and stay ahead by building the Theory of Evolution.
Trade in sequence. If you trade a tech to one rival, see what the others will give you as well, and do it that turn.

	25-02-2002 20:21									#4
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Well, the real secret is to trade something the AI doesn't have for something you want.

My current (4th - OK, I have little free time) Regent game, I am playing continents, standard. It appears that the continents are out of range of each other, but the Lighthouse gave my galleys the speed and range to reach another land mass.

There, my world map + 20 gold was worth their territory map + a tech. I even found a gap that I dropped a city into.
The next thing I know, I am in the middle ages and racing to astronomy to cross the 4 ocean gap to the next land mass. ( sacrificed a galley.)

	26-02-2002 00:54									#5
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Thanks guys, you've been helpful.

One thing though, while I'm killing the first civ I'm usually only building units and at the same time the other civs surpass me in tech, so they have better defense units, so I can't really declare war on them and expect to win, so how can I ask for peace treaty + techs, when I won't be able to get the better units to attack them?

	26-02-2002 01:28									#6
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Don't totally wipe out the victim civ, leave them a couple cities, at least one. Then you can demand their tech at the end of the war. The others you have to trade with.

	26-02-2002 02:38									#7
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I haven't tried it, just saw it somewhere:

Stealing techs is cheaper than trading them. When there's only one AI having a tech, it might want to keep it for a couple of turns. If you can steal it, you can earn a lot from selling it to everybody.

Trading maps to make a lot of money: you trade terrain maps with 3 AIs, then trade your terrain map for the next 4 AIs' world maps (since your terrain map would be more valuable), then sell your world map to everybody.

	26-02-2002 07:10									#8
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interesting thoughts Xin. I gotta try stealing the techs, aren't they usually 1000+ gold to steal though?

	27-02-2002 03:07									#9
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In my cuurent game I am playing as the Egyptions. It is 1020 AD and I have justed entered into the Industrail age. I am about one or two techs ahead of everyone else, some Ai civs I am ahead by 5 or 6 techs. What I do is focus on building my up my empire. I have libary in all of my cities and universities in most of my cities. I have a super science city were I have colosus, copernicus, and newtons univerisity in my capital. I also trade techs with the AI so that I can set science at a rate I get techs every 5 to 4 turns.

One thing I see if you want to be a warmonger and focus your cities production on millitary units, then your empire will be under developed compared to the rest of the world and thus you will produce very little science, even if you set at 100%. Thus it get ahead on tech you have to devlope your empire, trade techs with the computer and buy them if necessary early in the game, have a science city, and try and go for great library as well.