24-02-2002 21:51									#1
	What happened to the MiG?? Idea for more unique units Inflate your Upload Space

Remember when the first screens of Civ3 came out and there was a picture of a MiG jet fighter? I was wondering what happened to that. I want to find two unique units for just about every civ and I think the MiG would be a good Russian one.
Here is what I thought of so far, if you have any ideas on where I can get any of these units, please help me.

Americans - I wasn't really sure, but I was thinking Minutemen or
Sherman tank. I would increase the power of the German panzar and lower the speed, for the Sherman, I would increase the speed and maybe lower the cost.

Russians - MiG 29 or whatever their more modern one is.

Japanese - Zero WW2 fighter, I think this would be a great unit for them.

England - Longbowman or something similar to that.

Chinese- Chu Ko No archer, like in AOE2. Can't think of anything else

If you have any ideas on how I can get some of these units, or help think of others, please tell me.

	24-02-2002 23:40									#2
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A civ should have 2 unique units. (more doesn't hurt). One ancient and the other one modern. So, American should not have Serman and F-15, that combo will make it too powerful. Russian Corrsack and MiG-29 make good combo though.

	24-02-2002 23:49									#3
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2UU's for each era sounds good to me.

	25-02-2002 00:32									#4
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I think for some of these countries, these would be good...

Russia - Cossack, MiG (or T-34 tank could be good)

Germany - Panzer, Axemen(?) or one of those types of units typical of early Germanic tribes

England - Longbowman, Man-O-War

Chinese - Rider, and Treasure Ship (replaces Caravel, carries more units and can go into Ocean squares)

America - Pioneer (Settlers with Attack/Defense capabilities), and F-15

Japan - Samurai, Zero (or maybe some sort of superior battleship??)


the trouble is when you get into some of the other civilizations (the ones that were wiped out rather early in the history of mankind)


Iriqouis - Mounted Warrior, (there is no modern Iriqouis weapon).

Aztec - Jaguar Warrior, (Montezuma's Revenge? Some sort of one-shot bombardment weapon on invaders when the drink the water? )

Zulu - Impi, maybe a Guerilla unit that springs up when cities are captured like in Civ 2??

Persians - Immortals, and... No Clue!

Babylonians - Bowman... hmmm... Skud Missile? I think Iraq will be the closest you'll come to a Babylonian unit.

Romans - Legions, resurrect the Crusader? (or how about a guy on a moped going Ciiaaoo! )

France - Musketeer, and somesort of modern French infantry with retreat capabilities. That way it can turn and run at the first sign of a Panzer... But seriously, how about French Foreign Legion? (I smell another crappy defense unit )

Egypt - War Chariots, and... some sort of unit from the Muslim Jihad?

Greeks - Hoplites, then they just got taken over by the Romans, then the Turks, and after independence they didn't see a whole lot of great units...

Indians - War Elephants, and well, they got the same deal as the Greeks basically... first the Mughals, then the English, and they haven't had anything too spectacular since then.

	25-02-2002 00:51									#5
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Out of the 4 greatest ancient civilization, Egypt, Babylon, Greece and China, only the Chinese civilization is still alive and well. All others have gone with the wind.

	25-02-2002 01:57									#6
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The French should have a specific rifleman, the Napoleonic soldier, with higher attack value or higher speed : because France was the first one in Europe to use massive conscription, just after the revolution, this war-torn country was able to conquer most of Europe (from Spain to Russia) in a few years.

	25-02-2002 03:21									#7
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Spiffor: The Napoleonic armies in France were armed with muskets. They are represented by the musketeer unit fairly well, I think.

I like the pioneer idea, and the MiG sounds good. This would add more depth to the game, I think.

Steele

	25-02-2002 03:27									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Dida Out of the 4 greatest ancient civilization, Egypt, Babylon, Greece and China, only the Chinese civilization is still alive and well. All others have gone with the wind.

*looks at map of world* eh?

I see Greece and Egypt mate.....

	25-02-2002 06:19									#9
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 *looks at map of world* eh? I see Greece and Egypt mate.....

I was talking about continuation of civilization. A nation named 'egypt' doesn't mean it belongs to the same civlization that created the pyramid. The same deal for Greece.

	25-02-2002 06:20									#10
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My ideas:

Modern Russian unit: Hind helicopter gunship. The latter would of course have to be handled differently than existing CivIII helicopters and aircraft beacause in RL the Hind serves as both a troop transport and an attack chopper.

Chinese Modern Unit: Silkworm cruise missle.

I don't think there is any logical way to introduce modern units for the extinct civs. In some instances it might be possible if you changed the names over time--i.e. Babs become Iraqis and Persians become Iranians.

But in some cases there is simply no way of countering the inconsistency--Americans can't have an ancient UU because they simply weren't around back then (I'm from the U.S.A., btw, before anyone accuses me of American bashing).

The only workaround would be to give an extra UU to some civs but not to others. In the interest of balance you would then have to take abilities away from civs getting an extra UU or add abilities to the civs not getting one. Either way it would require additional "tweaking" of the game's rules.

	25-02-2002 06:23									#11
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I like a lot of these ideas, especially the one about the French troops that have the option of retreat, although, maybe it shouldn't be an option and it should be automatic , but it is hard to find unique units for a lot of the civs. I am not any good at creating the units either, so I am trying to find some that I can download. I want them to match ones in the game, some custom units just don't look right compared to the rest of the unit. If anyone can find any of these units, please tell me where they are by emailing me. The address is SK138@adelphia.net

	25-02-2002 06:29									#12
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Has anyone made new units for Civ3 at all yet? How are they faring with all the animations and extra files needed for a unit to look the same as the rest?

I am all for new units... but if they arent going to be animated ect.. they'll stick out very bad IMHO. Its either all or none. And what a waste it'll be if we have to have all the units animations turned off just to add our own artwork.

When real scenarios are supported I forsee waves of new unit designs, but with all this talk of extra units now... has anyone come up with any? I suppose I should look in the Civ3 creation or Files forum for that.

-FMK.

	25-02-2002 06:30									#13
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The expansion pack should include small wonder such as a 'unit workshop'. After you build it, you can design your own super units. (They will be expansive, so you cannot mass produce them). So, a Japanese can build their own Yamato, and American their F-22.

	25-02-2002 07:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh Has anyone made new units for Civ3 at all yet? How are they faring with all the animations and extra files needed for a unit to look the same as the rest? I am all for new units... but if they arent going to be animated ect.. they'll stick out very bad IMHO. Its either all or none. And what a waste it'll be if we have to have all the units animations turned off just to add our own artwork. -FMK.

There have been a lot of pretty decent looking units out. I saw a fire longbowman, a perry frigate, and a bandit unit that looked just like normal Civ3 units. So yes, people have started making units, and some look quite good.

	25-02-2002 08:12									#15
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Well, one approach to "extinct" civs would be to give their second UU also in the ancient-medieval period.

For instance, the Greeks could have both hoplites and 'greek fire' artillery unit.

Iroqouis could get both mounted warriors and a settler unit with an additional movement point (you know, that whole crossing the land bridge thing).

Other civs, like the Americans, Germans, and Russians, would be 'stacked' towards later aras.

ER

	25-02-2002 08:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Easy Rhino Well, one approach to "extinct" civs would be to give their second UU also in the ancient-medieval period. For instance, the Greeks could have both hoplites and 'greek fire' artillery unit. Iroqouis could get both mounted warriors and a settler unit with an additional movement point (you know, that whole crossing the land bridge thing). Other civs, like the Americans, Germans, and Russians, would be 'stacked' towards later aras. ER

Hmmm. Wouldn't this give an even greater advantage to the civs with early UU's? In most cases, I'd much rather have five mounted warriors and this potential settler unit in 3000B.C. than an equal number of Panzers and a hypothetical new German UU in 1910.

	25-02-2002 08:37									#17
	Re: What happened to the MiG?? Idea for more unique units Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SK138 Remember when the first screens of Civ3 came out and there was a picture of a MiG jet fighter? I was wondering what happened to that. I want to find two unique units for just about every civ and I think the MiG would be a good Russian one. Here is what I thought of so far, if you have any ideas on where I can get any of these units, please help me.

The Mig is in the game. It is called Jet Fighter for non-American Civs.

quote: Americans - I wasn't really sure, but I was thinking Minutemen or Sherman tank. I would increase the power of the German panzar and lower the speed, for the Sherman, I would increase the speed and maybe lower the cost.

The Sherman is in the game also. It is the first tank that can be built all Civs except Germany.

quote: Russians - MiG 29 or whatever their more modern one is.

See above for ans.

quote: Japanese - Zero WW2 fighter, I think this would be a great unit for them.

Not in the current game, however the first Bomber look like a Japanese Betty

quote: England - Longbowman or something similar to that.

In the current game, however every Civs can build them.

quote: Chinese- Chu Ko No archer, like in AOE2. Can't think of anything else If you have any ideas on how I can get some of these units, or help think of others, please tell me.

	25-02-2002 13:22									#18
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I thought about this, but I don't think it's a good idea.

	25-02-2002 13:51									#19
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Come on...a zero is definitly not the first thing that comes to my mind about a japanese UU...thinking of Japan means thinking of samurai-geisha-tea-ceremony-stuff...or not?...ok maybe Godzilla(Gojira) would also be a cool UU
...but a Zero...pffh...You all are just too obsessed with WWII-Units...

	25-02-2002 20:39									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Dida The expansion pack should include small wonder such as a 'unit workshop'. After you build it, you can design your own super units. (They will be expansive, so you cannot mass produce them). So, a Japanese can build their own Yamato, and American their F-22.

I thought that building the Yamato involved some beautiful woman from Iskandaria crashing on Mars.

(Hmm... alien invasions.)

	25-02-2002 23:26									#21
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About Napoleonic soldiers as the French UU, they are not the musketeers : the napoleonic warfare (early 19th) resembled much more tha American civil war's one than the 16th century' warfare. Napoleonic soldiers were hired through conscription and had rifles far more advances than in the 16th century (go play Cossacks if you want to feel the differences), thus they should replace the standard rifleman.
But to avoid having 2 similar UUs following each other (Musketeer - Napoleonic), the older one should be a knight-like heavy cavalry : the Franks took the idea from the Arabs in 8th century, and heavy cavaliers became professional soldiers who should't work for a living. It was the origin of French feudalism, and heavy cavalry were the be all - end all of the French strategy until the hundred years war, and the defeat of Azincourt. I don't know if this is specific to France though (ie Teutonic knights in Germany).
But all in all, Musketeers are quite lame : they were the king's elite guard, not a standard troop on the battlefield. Guess Firaxis thought the French golden age was during Louis XIV, and wanted to have a unit of this period, which is known to the general public.

About the German UU, it doesn't need to be modern. Sure, modern Germany is born 130 years ago, but the Germanic culture is much older : the Romans had to struggle against germanic tribes ca. 50 BC before invading Gaul, these Germanic tribes caused the fall of the Roman empire, were loosely united in the Holy Roman-Germanic Empire, and German nations had a prior role in European commerce during the middle ages. The Germanic culture is even older than the French one, and plenty of ancient / medieval UUs could be found, but we would need some documentation.

	26-02-2002 01:36									#22
	To Spiffor Put an end to popups!

Actually' you' re quite right. I think you like(d) history ...

To complete: the Franks (leader Clovis) were one of many different German tribes harassing the Romans more than once, while longtime not being able to threaten the Roman Empire. While Romans considered the Parthean as their worst enemies, something unexpectedly changed history: the rise of the horrifying Huns. Their ambitions and successes (which also led them to Europe) scared the Germans that hard, that they chose running from their homelands to the greener and more appealing grounds in the Roman Empire. The Germans preferred overrunning the Romans than fighting the Huns: as a result the Western Roman Empire fell at 476 AD. One German tribe - the Franks - managed to settle Gaul, effectively ruling the territory we now call France. Their most famous leader was Clovis, the first of the German leaders to get christianized (his wife was christian). As a result he had more support of local inhabitants, who were allready christianized, making it easier to capture and hold the land.

The rise of the Huns is also known as the period of the 'Tribe/ People Migrations'.

AJ

	26-02-2002 02:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The JIG is up Come on...a zero is definitly not the first thing that comes to my mind about a japanese UU...thinking of Japan means thinking of samurai-geisha-tea-ceremony-stuff...or not?...ok maybe Godzilla(Gojira) would also be a cool UU ...but a Zero...pffh...You all are just too obsessed with WWII-Units...

The geisha idea is pretty good but I don't know exactly how it could be used in civ3. The samurai is already in the game, so the next thing that came to mind for me was the Zero fighter, which I still think is the best choice.

	26-02-2002 16:40									#24
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hehe the geisha could seduce enemy UUs and convert them or steal secrets (like old diplomats)...probably for a lower price compared to the embassy price list.

	26-02-2002 20:37									#25
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quote: Originally posted by The JIG is up hehe the geisha could seduce enemy UUs and convert them or steal secrets (like old diplomats)...probably for a lower price compared to the embassy price list.

Young male fantasies always working full steam, I see

Well, just for record I remember a relevant thread some months ago, started when Firaxis announced the UU concept. Sorry if I don't provide the link (too in a hurry to make a decent search) but I'm sure you can find it with easy. It contains lot of interesting units name, and I suppose you agree is better to start from a good base and improve...

	26-02-2002 20:51									#26
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Tell me a better solution for the geisha UU...
btw I just mentioned Geishas because they are typical for a japanese scenario...not because I want them as UU.